General Queries and issues with how Mafia section operates

[Lindltaylor]

2) Lay down guidelines regarding what sort of punishment would be given for particular rule breaking

This is what needs to happen. We don’t need a tribunal as appealing as the idea is.

Having a voting System in place is bound to create campaigns and people getting voted just for being liked. On top of that the system doesn’t really change the underlining issue. Just because someone is voted, doesn’t mean he or she is going to make the right decisions. This would later require re-electing that position or something else. It’s unnecessary complication.

In this regard, establishing certain rules and regulations as to what constitutes a warning, ban, and more is the first and only step needed imo.

This would also inform players on how to behave and would help other players report toxic behavior as well. On this note, decisions, diasporas, and eventual punishments can be wholly discussed with perspectives from other players also being brought in since each one knows what the rules are and can clearly say when a person has violated them. It would, in essence, remove potential bias and enforce the players themselves to take action and inspire decision.

Frankly, I have no issue with Drago having the final say. As the mafia mod, I haven’t really seen any issues with him. I know this from personal experience as well. Just set out proper rules to follow.

 

[Rej]

Now, I want to vote yes just to piss rej more

I am actually only pissed off at 2 people and thats my fellow coaches who started the mess.

Oh and the mod team that seemingly doesnt get along with each other internally.

I told Drago and AL to open a mafia mod PM similair to the coaches PM. In order to create a new instance for harsher problems to be discussed, like reports and complaints. While the other coach PM and system remains as guidelines.

The removal of the coach system will only cause problems and more favourism.
Its annoying to see it came this far as I never used any privilegs. I always did everything for the benefit of the section and I enjoy helping hosts to coordinate or write an essay on mechanics.

 

[Nana]

Not nice to tell players from other forums to shut up 🤷‍♀️

When a lot of them what brings activity to this section. They has the right to voice their opinions

 

[Rej]

Also the ban on Midnight was issued by Drago and AL. I abstained. I didnt even know T-Pein was banned. I as coach did not participate in most of the decisions. I never issued something against anyone. I have always been here to talk about hosting and guidelines. So why are we all thrown together into a bucket? Same for Zem who is one of the few that knows how to properly host ToS and make setups there. She also never issued anything.

I dont want people to attack the coaches as a group and I think there is some misunderstanding going on additionally to internal drama.

 

[Rej]

Not nice to tell players from other forums to shut up 🤷‍♀️

When a lot of them what brings activity to this section. They has the right to voice their opinions

Its not nice that a group of people gets attacked here because mods seemingly have internal problems and cant come to agreement with each others. Now we have to carry the burden as non-mods.

 

[Worst]

I nominate @Worst to head the new mafia illuminati tribunal.

I thought i was already :/

 

[Ballel]

You realise other forums don't have that and are working fine? This place is overly controlled for no reason whatsoever.

Ban in this case means game ban.

I do not think Joygirl deserved a punishment after her first game here, and it was initially not going to happen to my knowledge. I've seen players do worse here and not get that. At worst they used to get a warning for their first offence, so yeah I do not agree with this system

nat go play on fanverse

This is what I mean when I say hosts should have final say whether a player should be allowed to play or not. During my fma game on FV lurker completely broke the game by ratting out his team mates, I had mods ready to ban the dude from playing and yet I chose not to ban him from my games. Why? Because sometimes shit happens, sometimes people get emotional, they get angry, they lash out or say or do things in the heat of the moment. We need to be more compassionate, if Joygirl was having meltdowns every game then yeah I'll understand why the decision was made but from what I see she's only played like 2 games and neither really warranted how she was dealt with.

Joygirls punishment is the equivalent of sending her to jail for 2 weeks because she kept crossing the street when the lights had turned red. What Joygirl needed was someone to explain to her why her actions were uncalled for and disrespectful to the host. Give her a warning or two and if she keeps behaving that way then yeah that's where mods should step in.

So she neg diff you everytime?


Btw, I know you are trying to do damage control and it's hilarious seeing you try

Just felt like posting this little exchange here.

https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...to-run-into-forum-toxicity.16003/post-2787045

 

[Nana]

Its not nice that a group of people gets attacked here because mods seemingly have internal problems and cant come to agreement with each others. Now we have to carry the burden as non-mods.

I see ppl nicely voicing their opinions. Not having the same opinions doesn't mean they attacking u guys

 

[Rej]

Sorry for my offenses I went overboard with NF comparisons, I have said everything I guess. I dont care about any outcome. The removal of the coach system would not change anything in how I will approach the section or authority here.

 

[T-Pein™]

Just felt like posting this little exchange here.

https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...to-run-into-forum-toxicity.16003/post-2787045

You mean mods have bias and favoritism ?

*surprised face*

 

[Ballel]

You mean mods have bias and favoritism ?

*surprised face*

It's never a bad idea to share this kind of content if it's to educate people on these matters.

 

[T-Pein™]

Its not nice that a group of people gets attacked here because mods seemingly have internal problems and cant come to agreement with each others. Now we have to carry the burden as non-mods.

You are confused.
The majority of us against it just dont want coaches to be doing section or game bans haphazardly....
If ekko wants mid in his game then mid should be able to play it.

 

[Rej]

You are confused.
The majority of us against it just dont want coaches to be doing section or game bans haphazardly....
If ekko wants mid in his game then mid should be able to play it.

Oh I have never spoken against it. I kept myself quite neutral about it.
I once were asked if I think it is punishable and I said yes, but I am flexible about it and I think a perma itself was too harsh.
It is a liftable punishment and I can see that.

It is a community decision and if people want him in their games and if it results in no complains then it is okay.

I just remember there were just some old complains about how unfun it is to host Mid and have roles wasted on him. I as a player tbh dont mind because I am sure such a player is readable still. The problem is that it is a bit painful from the host perspective.

I can live with it tho and I can def say that it was a good decision to lift the penalty.

 

[Underworld Broker]

remove the coach system all together
if someone needs help they can ask
it doesnt have to be mandatory

^basically this.

Also from what I've seen "new" hosts usually ask for help or someone who can take a quick look over their setup. I don't recall seeing anyone who thought they're a god at creating mafia setups, and I'd assume it's because they, prior to hosting smth themselves, join games first and see the backlash that some games get after everything's set and done (let's be honest, there's always ppl complaining about smth). And newbie's will more often than not try to deliver smth enjoyable/setups that make sense which usually leads to them asking for help.

So if u try to bring up the "but newbie" card here to use it as some kinda reasoning to keep the coach system, then idk what to say. At the very least u can remove it for a while and see how it goes, if it doesn't work then just bring it back, easy.

----
Also I agree with what Aries said regarding the "hosts having the final say".

 

[T-Pein™]

^basically this.

Also from what I've seen "new" hosts usually ask for help or someone who can take a quick look over their setup. I don't recall seeing anyone who thought they're a god at creating mafia setups, and I'd assume it's because they, prior to hosting smth themselves, join games first and see the backlash that some games get after everything's set and done (let's be honest, there's always ppl complaining about smth). And newbie's will more often than not try to deliver smth enjoyable/setups that make sense which usually leads to them asking for help.

So if u try to bring up the "but newbie" card here to use it as some kinda reasoning to keep the coach system, then idk what to say. At the very least u can remove it for a while and see how it goes, if it doesn't work then just bring it back, easy.

----
Also I agree with what Aries said regarding the "hosts having the final say".

Change is good.
Just a few weeks ago there was some "end of days" talk regarding the removal of the calendar system.
And so far everything is working smoothly and hosts are communicating with each other.
Interested in a trial run as well

 

[Ratchet]

Just some input -

The coach thing comes from OJ. I'd know because it was two others and myself that established it there. Back then, the coaches ran the section, because some behaviour can be distruptive to games but not ve against forum rules. This allowed the sections to be ran as fairly as possible.

In terms of moderation, I do agree things like bans should be left to mods. I also think the section should be able to moderate itself though. The way the system was originally set up, it was to be completely transparent so no coach could be accused to running the show or overstepping their "authority" I guess is the word you'd use here. I'm not sure if, say, a site mod that doesn't play any Mafia anywhere would be able to make a call on a player being banned for a couple of games.

If you guys want a Mafia Mod instead, go for it really. But that also has the issue of one person making the decisions, which can be it's own mess. It's whatever, but I feel like a lot of this has nothing to do with the section, and more about the direction the site leadership wants to take the section in. Which is obviously up to you guys to decide.

 

[Rej]

Just some input -

The coach thing comes from OJ. I'd know because it was two others and myself that established it there. Back then, the coaches ran the section, because some behaviour can be distruptive to games but not ve against forum rules. This allowed the sections to be ran as fairly as possible.

In terms of moderation, I do agree things like bans should be left to mods. I also think the section should be able to moderate itself though. The way the system was originally set up, it was to be completely transparent so no coach could be accused to running the show or overstepping their "authority" I guess is the word you'd use here. I'm not sure if, say, a site mod that doesn't play any Mafia anywhere would be able to make a call on a player being banned for a couple of games.

If you guys want a Mafia Mod instead, go for it really. But that also has the issue of one person making the decisions, which can be it's own mess. It's whatever, but I feel like a lot of this has nothing to do with the section, and more about the direction the site leadership wants to take the section in. Which is obviously up to you guys to decide.

We started off with a single mafia mod, AL. And then Drago joined because AL was overworked.

People don't realize how much work/burden is there when running a section and it is just normal that they ask for help when things start to accumulate, so I appreciated helping AL back when we grew the section. We don't want the credits or anything but people should understand that we follow a successful recipe and that going against this recipe is just sad tbh. It shows actually what a low tolerance those people have that usurp against this idea.

There were some mistakes that were done in a span of 2.5 years but this doesn't mean that the recipe has to be changed. You just have to adjust the cook literally. We still grew successfully this section because the recipe was functioning and the communities enjoyed themselves.

People should really step back now and rethink what they want, because this is a turning point discussion for the community and the backfire on a misdecision will be too harsh and game breaking. I know it.


I suggested all Mods affiliated with WG mafia to just open a new PM with each other where they can discuss reports and other stuff related to the section. So any mod can issue something once there is a majority okay in PM, like we would have done it in our coach PM.

But well I feel ignored and people seemingly want more and harsher changes, ergo a change of the successful recipe.

 

[Noctis]

#DefundTheCoaches

 

[Natalija]

We started off with a single mafia mod, AL. And then Drago joined because AL was overworked.

People don't realize how much work/burden is there when running a section and it is just normal that they ask for help when things start to accumulate, so I appreciated helping AL back when we grew the section. We don't want the credits or anything but people should understand that we follow a successful recipe and that going against this recipe is just sad tbh. It shows actually what a low tolerance those people have that usurp against this idea.

There were some mistakes that were done in a span of 2.5 years but this doesn't mean that the recipe has to be changed. You just have to adjust the cook literally. We still grew successfully this section because the recipe was functioning and the communities enjoyed themselves.

People should really step back now and rethink what they want, because this is a turning point discussion for the community and the backfire on a misdecision will be too harsh and game breaking. I know it.


I suggested all Mods affiliated with WG mafia to just open a new PM with each other where they can discuss reports and other stuff related to the section. So any mod can issue something once there is a majority okay in PM, like we would have done it in our coach PM.

But well I feel ignored and people seemingly want more and harsher changes, ergo a change of the successful recipe.

There are many mods in our staff who are very familiar with mafia. Our inbox is open for every and any issue from Drago, AL, as well as users.

When mafia reports happen, we discuss them in the staff pm.

 

[Rej]

There are many mods in our staff who are very familiar with mafia. Our inbox is open for every and any issue from Drago, AL, as well as users.

When mafia reports happen, we discuss them in the staff pm.

That is good. Then it should be extensively used in future in order to avoid a situation like the recent one and have set rules to be followed.