Speculations Shanks is not who we think he is.
- Thread starter Paperchampion23
- Start date
Okay I read it all because you recommended.
I actually like the theory pretty much, but I do not see it coherent that the actual red hair pirates remain undefeated until the end of the series to be final antagonists because they have much less narrative importance compared to the WG. Perhaps if it's only Shanks and Mihawk, but still...
A way I think this theory could work is if there's a trigger that causes Shanks to be much more evil and powerful. Like for example we have seen very weird things with Law's powers regarding Personality shifts and so on. Imu's body seems weak, perhap shanks could serve as a vessel? I don't know. It was a nice read anyway, I think I've seen this thread before
I actually like the theory pretty much, but I do not see it coherent that the actual red hair pirates remain undefeated until the end of the series to be final antagonists because they have much less narrative importance compared to the WG. Perhaps if it's only Shanks and Mihawk, but still...
A way I think this theory could work is if there's a trigger that causes Shanks to be much more evil and powerful. Like for example we have seen very weird things with Law's powers regarding Personality shifts and so on. Imu's body seems weak, perhap shanks could serve as a vessel? I don't know. It was a nice read anyway, I think I've seen this thread before
All I'll say is give it some time. Oda has been very keen on teasing Shanks as a character recently:
Jump Festa 2020
"Do you all want some exciting information regarding the story? That redhead guy may move...! The story is moving towards its final stage, so please enjoy next year as well!".
Jump Festa 2021
"The production is also progressing carefully. And we have Film RED! A new girl, Shanks, and Luffy!! Shanks is a character we haven't seen much of yet, so what's his relationship with that girl? Will he even meet Luffy?..."
When you combine this with some of the weird things he's been doing, it starts to "sort of" make sense. I will say that it's clear he has a hidden motivation, only because he's never discussed wanting One Piece or actually wanting Luffy to actually "save" the world like Whitebeard predicts he will once OP is found.
Again, could be totally wrong on this, but I think if Shanks was this perfect good guy, we would have known his goals and intent for Luffy already. And im not even trying to say he's "evil" per se, just more of a grey antagonist who people can still root for. This is kind of like Mihawk, who is "actually" a good person on an outward level, but IS Zoro's main antagonist (i.e. someone who inhibits the progression of a protagonist). Maybe that helps get my point across with Shanks. We gotta wait for now.
Jump Festa 2020
"Do you all want some exciting information regarding the story? That redhead guy may move...! The story is moving towards its final stage, so please enjoy next year as well!".
Jump Festa 2021
"The production is also progressing carefully. And we have Film RED! A new girl, Shanks, and Luffy!! Shanks is a character we haven't seen much of yet, so what's his relationship with that girl? Will he even meet Luffy?..."
When you combine this with some of the weird things he's been doing, it starts to "sort of" make sense. I will say that it's clear he has a hidden motivation, only because he's never discussed wanting One Piece or actually wanting Luffy to actually "save" the world like Whitebeard predicts he will once OP is found.
Again, could be totally wrong on this, but I think if Shanks was this perfect good guy, we would have known his goals and intent for Luffy already. And im not even trying to say he's "evil" per se, just more of a grey antagonist who people can still root for. This is kind of like Mihawk, who is "actually" a good person on an outward level, but IS Zoro's main antagonist (i.e. someone who inhibits the progression of a protagonist). Maybe that helps get my point across with Shanks. We gotta wait for now.
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Nothing much yet. There's a good/decent notion that we may learn a good deal more about Shanks before the movie premieres. That being said if he is an Antagonist, I don't expect the film to present him as one, but "maybe" hint as his antagonism if it exists. Reason being is regardless of where the manga gets, the anime viewers wouldn't see this for over a year.
For the record I don't expect Luffy and Shanks to meet on screen in the film. I think its mainly going to be about characters related to Shanks, but really not himself. Examples of this are just like how the other 3 films (Strong World, Z, Stampede) use Canon to set their plots, but aren't canon in the present.
For the record I don't expect Luffy and Shanks to meet on screen in the film. I think its mainly going to be about characters related to Shanks, but really not himself. Examples of this are just like how the other 3 films (Strong World, Z, Stampede) use Canon to set their plots, but aren't canon in the present.
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Lord Shanks is the God of the Underworld.
I'm not sure I agree. I dont think it cheapens Luffys character at all because I'm not saying Shanks is "evil", just a morally grey antagonist. Luffy being wrong about his mentor makes him his own person and in my opinion extremely poetic to how the story began. I personally dislike the "Jiraya's" or the "Dumbledore's" of fiction primarily because its an overused trope to have a mentor exist for the exact purpose of dying or improving the main characters resolve. Luffy already has had that with Ace, Shanks doesn't need to serve that anymore than what he does already.
And I'm still saying Shanks still wants peace, just not by orthodox or even ethical means. He didn't want Ace to die (to my knowledge assuming Kaido was going to make things worse). But my point is that it may all done for an ulterior motive. There is a reason he didn't want Ace to die, there seems to be a reason he wanted to influence Luffy and make him big.
For example, he must have known Luffy's full name when he met him. Considering he knew Roger extremely well, it seems off to me that he just happened to fatefully encounter Luffy at a young, impressionable age, almost as if he wanted to inspire Luffy to become a pirate. They were there for over a year, why?
You have a right to your opinion, definitely, but I seriously implore looking at all of these oddities Shanks has or connections Oda has laid out. For there to be "nothing" would actually be extremely weird at this point.
And I'm not saying he still can't still be a good character, but the stuff I'm saying above virtually proves there is way more to his character than we know, and THAT is what is important, because a lot of it comes from Oda making it mysterious (why he's talking to Gorosei, what Question did he ask Roger, what his "bet" on Luffy actually entails, etc). We can make guesses to why, and thats all I'm doing here with supporting evidence.
That said, Luffy has exclaimed he wants to beat Shanks' ass so there's that
And I'm still saying Shanks still wants peace, just not by orthodox or even ethical means. He didn't want Ace to die (to my knowledge assuming Kaido was going to make things worse). But my point is that it may all done for an ulterior motive. There is a reason he didn't want Ace to die, there seems to be a reason he wanted to influence Luffy and make him big.
For example, he must have known Luffy's full name when he met him. Considering he knew Roger extremely well, it seems off to me that he just happened to fatefully encounter Luffy at a young, impressionable age, almost as if he wanted to inspire Luffy to become a pirate. They were there for over a year, why?
You have a right to your opinion, definitely, but I seriously implore looking at all of these oddities Shanks has or connections Oda has laid out. For there to be "nothing" would actually be extremely weird at this point.
And I'm not saying he still can't still be a good character, but the stuff I'm saying above virtually proves there is way more to his character than we know, and THAT is what is important, because a lot of it comes from Oda making it mysterious (why he's talking to Gorosei, what Question did he ask Roger, what his "bet" on Luffy actually entails, etc). We can make guesses to why, and thats all I'm doing here with supporting evidence.
That said, Luffy has exclaimed he wants to beat Shanks' ass so there's that
If Shanks is the King of Underworld in metaphorical sense (Jirocho = supplying both weapons or facilities to empower both Revos and World Government and making them war against each other) then how about making a parallel with God of The Underworld also in ideology?
What i mean by this:
Shanks may aim to "facilitate/create" the birth of a worthy figure that will lead the war against World Government. Just like some certain people were conspirated about to have orchestrated the World War 1 and 2 - its just my wild imagination taken from your posts lol - what if Shanks is The Mastermind behind the greatest world war ever.
Why would he aim to do this? How's this related to ideology of Underworld King?
I remember Johan Liebert from the manga "Monster" said that the only thing that all humanity equals in, is death. If i try to reach and connect this kind of philosophy to orchestration of one piece world war, then it may connect.
"Life is more important than honor"
Shanks inspired Luffy to become PK. PK Luffy will wage war against WG. By this, Shanks orchestrate PK vs WG. Shanks do this to realize his ideology of death as the bringer of balance.
---
By doing this, which faction is right and wrong, which faction is the most dangerous to let live may become clear to Shanks.
Depending on his philosophy,
- Shanks may support the right faction, fulfilling the balance of the righteous in the world. Achieving peace.
- Or he may choose to eliminate the faction which is the most dangerous to him, fulfilling the balance of strength in the world. And form a treaty with...but also in some subconscious level, control...the remaining side. Achieving peace.
- or he may choose to eliminate BOTH Luffy and Imu after they reach the point of final exhaustion and dying, from battling each other. Fulfilling the balance of life and death. Achieving peace.
---
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kissing the gorosei's ass doesnt always entail a sinister motive behind it
seems more like shanks is trying to maintain some order . the gorosei share these motives as well.
he saw the threat of an escalating war with kaido going to mf and blocked it
tried to prevent blackbeard and ace confrontation which led to the war
and now he's hinting at a warning about a certain pirate.
did roger and garp think the cd's were morally reprehensible ??? most likely
did they take down the man who aimed to throw down the govt they had set up
most definitely.
seems more like shanks is trying to maintain some order . the gorosei share these motives as well.
he saw the threat of an escalating war with kaido going to mf and blocked it
tried to prevent blackbeard and ace confrontation which led to the war
and now he's hinting at a warning about a certain pirate.
did roger and garp think the cd's were morally reprehensible ??? most likely
did they take down the man who aimed to throw down the govt they had set up
most definitely.
お頭 just means "Boss" (more specifically the head of group or an organization, it's not specific or characteristic of Yakuza)
If you read the Manga in japanese you will see that countless characters get called that. To name a few:
- Fisher Tiger
- Hody
- Dorry and Broggy
- Kid
- Mikazuki (the pirate that refused to pay Galley-La and got owned back in Water 7
- Don Chinjao
There's nothing special about it
Also nothing special about Akagami. Japanese is a pitch accent language, even though 神 and 髪 are romanized the same way for western plebs, they have different pitch in Japanese, they are pronounced differently
If you try to extract meaning from kanji or the JP version without knowing japanese you're just misleading people
It's like if I make a theory that The Godfather actually stands by The Good Father, and then start talking about how his sons loved him lmao
If you read the Manga in japanese you will see that countless characters get called that. To name a few:
- Fisher Tiger
- Hody
- Dorry and Broggy
- Kid
- Mikazuki (the pirate that refused to pay Galley-La and got owned back in Water 7
- Don Chinjao
There's nothing special about it
Also nothing special about Akagami. Japanese is a pitch accent language, even though 神 and 髪 are romanized the same way for western plebs, they have different pitch in Japanese, they are pronounced differently
If you try to extract meaning from kanji or the JP version without knowing japanese you're just misleading people
It's like if I make a theory that The Godfather actually stands by The Good Father, and then start talking about how his sons loved him lmao
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It's the fact that it's he is never actually called Captain at all, and is the only Yonko to not be. And Fisher Tiger and Chinjao both carry themselves as a Yakuza like organization. The rest are run very gang like as well. It's the same with Bege. I never said it was "exclusive" to Shanks.
And the point is, that's a strawmans argument because everything else is valid when it comes to relating him with Yakuza references, specifically his Bounty (which IS based based on the actual word Yakuza from Oicho-Kabu)
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Lol
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It does indicate "something" because these men want to stop Luffy and capture Robin.
Do you not find it weird that if Shanks is trying to maintain balance (which I agree with), he's also the reason Luffy has survived and became a pirate? Luffy is someone who's quite literally geared to taking it all down and destroying it, it's just that his methods are different from Blackbeard.
This was my point. I don't believe Shanks is a government dog. Early Gorosei dialogue and his own dialogue prove he's not trying to "change" the world that much, UNLESS he's playing both sides for a reason. Which is the whole point of the thread because as "obvious" as we'd like to think Shanks is, Oda has yet to actually give us actual motivations behind the character..
Lmao at ganglike
It's meaningless bro
If you wanna draw meaning from the Japanese version first you need to learn japanese to a good level
Otherwise you're just saying whatever and misleading people
If you're interested in learning japanese language through media, use this guide https://animecards.site/
Supplement it with a grammar resource like this and you're gold https://www.imabi.net/tableofcontents.htm
Good luck, if you have any questions just ask me in dm
It's meaningless bro
If you wanna draw meaning from the Japanese version first you need to learn japanese to a good level
Otherwise you're just saying whatever and misleading people
If you're interested in learning japanese language through media, use this guide https://animecards.site/
Supplement it with a grammar resource like this and you're gold https://www.imabi.net/tableofcontents.htm
Good luck, if you have any questions just ask me in dm
Did you not actually read my comment about his bounty? Regardless of what you are saying, you are wrong. Shanks HAS clear Yakuza motifs and one of those reasons is because his Bounty directly references Yakuza.
Nothing you say changes that, including your weird "I'm better at Japanese than you bro" mentality. You do not need experience on Japanese to understand these references.
And to be honest, you are criticizing the wrong person. The second half of the that post is not even mine, I make a clear distinction on the OP. It's @ArturCantSpeakJapanese and his points on Shanks. You want to argue, argue with them them. I don't have time to argue nonsense with someone trying to school me on 1 word Japanese games
And yes, Ganglike. Jinbe is called Boss. The Sun Pirates are run like a gang/Yakuza of pirates. Kid's crew is run like a gang/hooligan group of pirates. Chinjao's crew is run like a triad. Bege's crew is run like the mob. How are you not understanding this?
Nothing you say changes that, including your weird "I'm better at Japanese than you bro" mentality. You do not need experience on Japanese to understand these references.
And to be honest, you are criticizing the wrong person. The second half of the that post is not even mine, I make a clear distinction on the OP. It's @ArturCantSpeakJapanese and his points on Shanks. You want to argue, argue with them them. I don't have time to argue nonsense with someone trying to school me on 1 word Japanese games
And yes, Ganglike. Jinbe is called Boss. The Sun Pirates are run like a gang/Yakuza of pirates. Kid's crew is run like a gang/hooligan group of pirates. Chinjao's crew is run like a triad. Bege's crew is run like the mob. How are you not understanding this?
I don't need help to point out that Shanks isnt called Captain and has Yakuza references.
I have a year of college Japanese (I've studied with the Genki books, not anime flashcards....) and don't really care to learn more outside actual N5-N1 learning. I'm not educating people in the language, nor do I want to
I have a year of college Japanese (I've studied with the Genki books, not anime flashcards....) and don't really care to learn more outside actual N5-N1 learning. I'm not educating people in the language, nor do I want to
N5-N1 tests are meaningless lmao
And Genki/college are a massive waste of time, as you don't learn japanese through textbooks but through consuming massive amounts of content and interacting with the language
You should really do yourself a favor and read the guide, it will save you.
But it seems like you won't. I guess it doesn't really effect me if you waste years of your life reading genki and never learning any japanese so I'm out
Just don't say nobody warned you
And Genki/college are a massive waste of time, as you don't learn japanese through textbooks but through consuming massive amounts of content and interacting with the language
You should really do yourself a favor and read the guide, it will save you.
But it seems like you won't. I guess it doesn't really effect me if you waste years of your life reading genki and never learning any japanese so I'm out
Just don't say nobody warned you
I literally went through this 8-9 years ago as a freshman in college...I'm not wasting my time at all because I haven't actually pursued any further learning beyond that point or had them time to.
I don't care to, and I'm not sure why this is the conversation being had in this thread. Again, if you want to discuss the language, go ahead and argue with the person who actually made those points and DM them. What is mine is the first half of the OP, which references zero japanese whatsoever and has to do with the actual plot.
I don't care to, and I'm not sure why this is the conversation being had in this thread. Again, if you want to discuss the language, go ahead and argue with the person who actually made those points and DM them. What is mine is the first half of the OP, which references zero japanese whatsoever and has to do with the actual plot.
That Shimizu Jircoho comparison as a classic one.
I always viewed Shanks as the ultimate gatekeeper who really wants the new age to come, with Luffy being to the one bet on. Shanks probably doesn't care about Luffy himself, but the potential results Luffy can get. Keeping everything stable until the right moment, and that moment is now. Oden was waiting for this current moment where pirates will show up and change the world, so it's safe to assume Shanks was waiting as well.
When Shanks went to the Gorosei about a "certain pirate", I always hoped it was Luffy. Now since it's the right moment, Shanks is now pushing the Gorosei's buttons to get them to take action, which is why they were talking a out the Great Cleansing and Wano immediately after their meeting with Shanks.
Would also explain why Shanks was so serious about WB, BB, Kaido, Ace, Marines etc. not fighting each other. It wasn't the right time for such Era altering battles yet.
I always viewed Shanks as the ultimate gatekeeper who really wants the new age to come, with Luffy being to the one bet on. Shanks probably doesn't care about Luffy himself, but the potential results Luffy can get. Keeping everything stable until the right moment, and that moment is now. Oden was waiting for this current moment where pirates will show up and change the world, so it's safe to assume Shanks was waiting as well.
When Shanks went to the Gorosei about a "certain pirate", I always hoped it was Luffy. Now since it's the right moment, Shanks is now pushing the Gorosei's buttons to get them to take action, which is why they were talking a out the Great Cleansing and Wano immediately after their meeting with Shanks.
Would also explain why Shanks was so serious about WB, BB, Kaido, Ace, Marines etc. not fighting each other. It wasn't the right time for such Era altering battles yet.
I like this take, but I have to question if it's entirely altruistic. Being able to even meet with them on its own already seems very weird. Not only that but Shanks never went to Laugh Tale, so it's odd to me that he "knows" when everyone should fight or when the era "should" change.
The big moment really comes from when we actually know his real motivations (not the what, but the why). Him playing the WG or Luffy doesn't entirely matter unless we know why he's actually doing it.
For the record, I believe this is partially the reason, I just think there is more to it because Oda hasn't revealed Shanks' motives or why he's doing it. He's only "alluded" to the idea, which makes be believe it's more complicated than that when you have Shanks' unknown past and hidden dialogue with Roger to contend with.
I do think his methods are going to be questioned by Luffy. Prompting the WG to start a new cleansing before Luffy can even fight back (before he finds OP) seems way too reckless to me
The big moment really comes from when we actually know his real motivations (not the what, but the why). Him playing the WG or Luffy doesn't entirely matter unless we know why he's actually doing it.
For the record, I believe this is partially the reason, I just think there is more to it because Oda hasn't revealed Shanks' motives or why he's doing it. He's only "alluded" to the idea, which makes be believe it's more complicated than that when you have Shanks' unknown past and hidden dialogue with Roger to contend with.
I do think his methods are going to be questioned by Luffy. Prompting the WG to start a new cleansing before Luffy can even fight back (before he finds OP) seems way too reckless to me
