General & Others What is the point of Wano?
- Thread starter lee33
- Start date
When did I say change in location means they aren't the same arc? Also, I agree that Water 7 is part of the CP9 saga however it is a separate arc.
What was the reason they came into Water 7? Was the reason the straw hats going into Water 7 was to defeat CP9 or was it for another reason? Is Sabody Archipaelog, Amazon Lily, Impel Down Down, Marine Ford are now not part of the same SAGA because they "Dont' have the same characters and villains"?
Zou has the same characters and villain's. WCI has the same characters and villain's of Wano. Do you want to add those two then into Wano? So congrats Wano arc is now over 200+ chapters using your logic.
What was the reason they came into Water 7? Was the reason the straw hats going into Water 7 was to defeat CP9 or was it for another reason? Is Sabody Archipaelog, Amazon Lily, Impel Down Down, Marine Ford are now not part of the same SAGA because they "Dont' have the same characters and villains"?
Zou has the same characters and villain's. WCI has the same characters and villain's of Wano. Do you want to add those two then into Wano? So congrats Wano arc is now over 200+ chapters using your logic.
Seriously, what idiot compares ALL of Wano to ONLY Enies Lobby? Enies Lobby is literally all fodder battles and main fights. It's the 2nd half of a bigger plotline. If you are going to do that, then you might as well ONLY count Onigashima, because that's literally what is comparable here. And currently, when you compare both, Wano ONLY just surpassed CP9 as the longest FULL story arc. I'm not talking about location based bullshit like splitting Water 7 and Enies Lobby, because any other suggestion(i.e, this thread...) means nothing.
The biggest problem is you are somehow treating all of Wano as comparable to the 2nd half of a battle arc that has the same villains as the former arc, that does not work.
You are also comparing arcs involving far less characters than what we currently have. Is Caesar in Wano? Is Doflamingo? Is Katakuri? No, the villains are different, hence they are not part of the Wano ARC. CP9 ARC is comprised of two smaller ARCS on two different ISLANDS. Wano is 1 ARC that all takes place locationally on the same ISLAND.
If you are going to compare Wano to CP9, you HAVE to compare the ENTIRE story arc, not a 50 chapter fight arc that was set up and concludes the plot of the former. Wano had 65 chapters of set up in the first 2 acts, plus Odens flashback, which is not far off from Water 7's sole arc. Only Water 7 focused on 5x less characters, so the chapters in that arc actually cover far less then what you have now.
Kaido is not the villain of Zou or WCI. Zunisha, Caesar, Katakuri, Oven, Pudding, Pedro, etc are not in Wano. New characters are in Wano. New villains are in Wano. Next
You are also comparing arcs involving far less characters than what we currently have. Is Caesar in Wano? Is Doflamingo? Is Katakuri? No, the villains are different, hence they are not part of the Wano ARC. CP9 ARC is comprised of two smaller ARCS on two different ISLANDS. Wano is 1 ARC that all takes place locationally on the same ISLAND.
If you are going to compare Wano to CP9, you HAVE to compare the ENTIRE story arc, not a 50 chapter fight arc that was set up and concludes the plot of the former. Wano had 65 chapters of set up in the first 2 acts, plus Odens flashback, which is not far off from Water 7's sole arc. Only Water 7 focused on 5x less characters, so the chapters in that arc actually cover far less then what you have now.
Post automatically merged:
Kaido is not the villain of Zou or WCI. Zunisha, Caesar, Katakuri, Oven, Pudding, Pedro, etc are not in Wano. New characters are in Wano. New villains are in Wano. Next
Jack was the villian which is a henchmen of Kaido wtf which was the whole point of Mink tribe going to Wano to defeat Kaido? So now you are being a smart aleck even though Jack was also a villian in Wano? ALso, Big Mom was a villian in WCI and she is still a villian in WAno. Now you are playing childish games of being a smart aleck? Okay lets play that game, Ice Berg is not in Ennies Lobby therefore Water 7 and Ennies lobby are not the same arc. Also, Spandam and Jabra was not in Water 7 therefore they both aren't the same arc.
Also again lets use your logic again and say you are right that Ennies Lobby and Water 7 are one entire arc that is 109 chapters and Wano is a single arc of over 120+ chapters. Let say you are right, then my argument of nothing of relevance in Wano occurring still stands. I gave you a list of all the central plot lines that occurred in CP9 saga. And yet nothing of equal relevance happened in Wano.
Also again lets use your logic again and say you are right that Ennies Lobby and Water 7 are one entire arc that is 109 chapters and Wano is a single arc of over 120+ chapters. Let say you are right, then my argument of nothing of relevance in Wano occurring still stands. I gave you a list of all the central plot lines that occurred in CP9 saga. And yet nothing of equal relevance happened in Wano.
Last edited:
The problem is, you think everything is black and white. Baroque Works Arc is not the same as CP9 arc. Baroque Works IS the entire organization, but Whiskey Peak, Little Garden and Drum do NOT have Crocodile as an antagonist. Water 7 and Enies Lobby HAVE Rob Lucci as an antagonist. The story is incomplete in Water 7 and is continued in Enies Lobby.
So no, Caesar, Doflamingo and Jack being associates and subordinates to Kaido does NOT make Kaido the main antagonist of Punk Hazard, Dressrosa and Zou. Is Big Mom the main antagonistof WCI? No. Her son Katakuri is.
Aka, CP9 is the ONLY arc in this series that shares the same main antagonist between two smaller arcs. Paramount War arc has separate antagonists for each of its smaller arcs. Hancock, Magellan and technically Akainu.
If you cannot see the difference in how hardheaded you are being about this topic, I have nothing else to say. Wano has addressed way more about this series than CP9 ever did. And that's fine, because CP9 is extremely character focused and revolves mainly around Robin, Usopp and Franky. Does Water 7 tie into the end plot like Wano does? Which arc is taking care of 2 of the 4 Yonko? Which arc fully describes the tail end of Roger's voyage? Which arc gets Luffy to be a great pirate?
I dare you to come up with a more poignant list that serves the entire series' conclusion. CP9 does not do more than Wano. That is some grade A BS and it's okay to be wrong little Lee, nobody faults you for having a wrong observation
So no, Caesar, Doflamingo and Jack being associates and subordinates to Kaido does NOT make Kaido the main antagonist of Punk Hazard, Dressrosa and Zou. Is Big Mom the main antagonistof WCI? No. Her son Katakuri is.
Aka, CP9 is the ONLY arc in this series that shares the same main antagonist between two smaller arcs. Paramount War arc has separate antagonists for each of its smaller arcs. Hancock, Magellan and technically Akainu.
If you cannot see the difference in how hardheaded you are being about this topic, I have nothing else to say. Wano has addressed way more about this series than CP9 ever did. And that's fine, because CP9 is extremely character focused and revolves mainly around Robin, Usopp and Franky. Does Water 7 tie into the end plot like Wano does? Which arc is taking care of 2 of the 4 Yonko? Which arc fully describes the tail end of Roger's voyage? Which arc gets Luffy to be a great pirate?
I dare you to come up with a more poignant list that serves the entire series' conclusion. CP9 does not do more than Wano. That is some grade A BS and it's okay to be wrong little Lee, nobody faults you for having a wrong observation
Dude, dude, dude, I have been using YOUR logic and YOUR definitions this whole time. I even said, "for the sake of argument let us suppose what you said is true".
Why are you still including Doflamingo and Ceaser my guy??? I said okay fine let us not include Dressrosa and Punk Hazard. Are you reading?
Okay? Let us YOUR logic of the "same characters and villians". Spandam was one of the main villain's of Ennies Lobby right? He wasn't in Water 7. Jabra was one of the main villians right of Ennies Lobby but he wasn't in Water 7. So why is it okay for your logic to be correct but when I use your logic against you, it is not okay?
So tell me what has it addressed? Lay it out for us. Tell us what is the central important plot points that Wano has given us within this entire 120 chapters? I am waiting.
Why are you still including Doflamingo and Ceaser my guy??? I said okay fine let us not include Dressrosa and Punk Hazard. Are you reading?
Okay? Let us YOUR logic of the "same characters and villians". Spandam was one of the main villain's of Ennies Lobby right? He wasn't in Water 7. Jabra was one of the main villians right of Ennies Lobby but he wasn't in Water 7. So why is it okay for your logic to be correct but when I use your logic against you, it is not okay?
So tell me what has it addressed? Lay it out for us. Tell us what is the central important plot points that Wano has given us within this entire 120 chapters? I am waiting.
Okay, and I answered once again, you can't compare apples to oranges. CP9 must compared in its entirety to Wano. You were NOT using my definitions, you are ridiculing them by acting like they don't matter.
I literally also include Zou and WCI in that statement, who the fuck cares? Cherry picking much?
Because it's not. Funny how you say I can't read yet you aren't noticing the difference between an organization and a main villain. Like I said, Baroque Works is present throughout out much of early GL, but Crocodile is not the MAIN villain. Kaido is not the MAIN villain of Zou. Big Mom is not the MAIN villain of WCI.
Are King and Queen villains in Zou and WCI? Any of the Flying 6? Is Katakuri a villain in Zou? Oven? Cracker? Jack (the villain of Zou) wasn't even defeated by the Strawhats this arc.. And at this time, Big Mom also isn't even being defeated by Strawhats, she's being fought by Kid and Law.
No, you first. You mentioned had this grand list you apparently showed me so let's see it.
Funny thing is because I know for a fact you won't win this argument. CP9 does not address more overall major story plot than Wano.
I literally also include Zou and WCI in that statement, who the fuck cares? Cherry picking much?
Because it's not. Funny how you say I can't read yet you aren't noticing the difference between an organization and a main villain. Like I said, Baroque Works is present throughout out much of early GL, but Crocodile is not the MAIN villain. Kaido is not the MAIN villain of Zou. Big Mom is not the MAIN villain of WCI.
Are King and Queen villains in Zou and WCI? Any of the Flying 6? Is Katakuri a villain in Zou? Oven? Cracker? Jack (the villain of Zou) wasn't even defeated by the Strawhats this arc.. And at this time, Big Mom also isn't even being defeated by Strawhats, she's being fought by Kid and Law.
No, you first. You mentioned had this grand list you apparently showed me so let's see it.
Funny thing is because I know for a fact you won't win this argument. CP9 does not address more overall major story plot than Wano.
You literally said, exact quote " They have the same characters and villains. " That is your definition.
I care! Because we are going in circles! You want to continue running in circles?
Define villain then. Is your definition of villain "only the person Luffy fights"?
Here you are being dishonest again. You aren't even arguing in good faith. My list is literally on page 4!
Then tell us. What is more important in Wano than Robin's flashback? Or the laying out the foundation of the World Government and void century? Or the ancient Weapon blue prints? What is it?
I care! Because we are going in circles! You want to continue running in circles?
Define villain then. Is your definition of villain "only the person Luffy fights"?
Here you are being dishonest again. You aren't even arguing in good faith. My list is literally on page 4!
Then tell us. What is more important in Wano than Robin's flashback? Or the laying out the foundation of the World Government and void century? Or the ancient Weapon blue prints? What is it?
And I also literally say:
"Enies Lobby is literally all fodder battles and main fights. It's the 2nd half of a bigger plotline. If you are going to do that, then you might as well ONLY count Onigashima, because that's literally what is comparable here"
You decided to, once again, cherry pick one of my responses to you as a "definition" I apparently made regarding what constitutes an the same arc or not.
It's not that simple. Like I said, CP9 is a unique and cannot be compared to any previous or future arc in the way you allegedly want to. It is the ONLY arc thus far in the series where the main antagonist is part of 2 consecutive arcs AS the main antagonist. It also has virtually every major character from Water 7 save for Iceberg. That's it. None of this "but Enies Lobby introduced new characters" bullshit you are spouting to me. It does not matter. Spandam was introduced in Water 7 anyway, not Enies Lobby, so you are wrong about that.
Bro did you forget how this entire argument started? You claimed CP9 arc as a whole is comparable to the 400 chapter Yonko arc. It's not. Then you tried to say "OK, I'll take off PH and DR" to please me for some reason. I could give two fucks about what you "care" about lol. Like I said, apples to oranges.
I said MAIN villain only for the 15th time. So once again you cant read. Crocodile, Enel, Lucci, Moria, Doflamingo, Caesar, and Katakuri. All Luffy opponents, all main villain of their respective arcs. Spandam is a secondary villain who's plot is not addressed by the main protagonist, rather his crew. Big Mom was a secondary villain in WCI, she is a background threat to the main protagonist. She is a secondary villain right now in Wano, not addressed by the main protagonist.
I'm I the user you provided the list to? No? Now you know why I asked.
I like how we are comparing new plot elements being introduced in in CP9 as being important, but if Wano elaborates on those things, its not important and it gives you something to complain about.
Let's look at your supposed list of CP9 and compare to Wano:
"1. Robin flashback that gave us the void century
2. World government.
3. Garp and Dragon being related to Luffy.
4. Ancient Weapon."
1. No, it INTRODUCED us to the concept. It did nothing regarding the void century at all. Wano on the other hand actually talks about the prophecy of bringing the dawn from a group of pirates who will liberate the world. It talks about Luffy's secret dream relating to Roger. It names Raftel as "Laugh Tale". It ties back
2. What about the WG? It INTRODUCED the concept of CP9, Enies Lobby and WG influence, but of 2 of those 3 things are central to enies Lobby. Not the overall plot. It's literally the CP9 arc lol, not relevant to the end of One Piece. CP0 is not CP9, you can thank Dressrosa for that, not Enies Lobby. Compare to Wano, The 2 Yonko being addressed were set up a decade ago as endgame characters, and the upper echelon of final antagonists in the series. CP9 arc does not introduce nor defeat the World Government
3. And how is that not comparable to Zoro being related to Ryuma or Ushimaru? What does that even mean? Does every arc have to have some bombshell relationship revealed for every character (even though that's been literally happening for Zoro snd Sanji)? Or are you saying Luffy is supposed to have some other massive revelation in Wano comparable to Enies Lobby? Oh wait he's literally the 2nd coming of Joyboy.
4. Again, what about it? Alabasta and Skypiea introduce the concept. CP9 LITERALLY only confirms its a ship. It does nothing else and achieves nothing more.
Keep in mind, that Wano is doing all of that and
- Introduced the concept of Rocks
- Tied Whitebeard and Roger to the main plot
- Sets up the endgame
- Propels Luffy and his crew to Yonko level
- Addresses and finalizes Law, Kid, Killer, Drake, Apoo and Hawkin's plotlines.
- Gave us actual confirmation about the WG gigantification projects in PH with the Numbers
- Introduced and confirmed the Oni Species
- Gave Jinbe his first real fight
- Gave Robin her first real fight in nearly 750 chapters
- Likely is giving us a new crewmate
- Sets up the beginnings of the actual Dawn and the final arc.
- And finishing a 400 chapter plotline over several SEPARATE arcs
- and so much more because I could care less about coming up with more points.
Peace out homeboy. I got no more time for this nonsense
"Enies Lobby is literally all fodder battles and main fights. It's the 2nd half of a bigger plotline. If you are going to do that, then you might as well ONLY count Onigashima, because that's literally what is comparable here"
You decided to, once again, cherry pick one of my responses to you as a "definition" I apparently made regarding what constitutes an the same arc or not.
It's not that simple. Like I said, CP9 is a unique and cannot be compared to any previous or future arc in the way you allegedly want to. It is the ONLY arc thus far in the series where the main antagonist is part of 2 consecutive arcs AS the main antagonist. It also has virtually every major character from Water 7 save for Iceberg. That's it. None of this "but Enies Lobby introduced new characters" bullshit you are spouting to me. It does not matter. Spandam was introduced in Water 7 anyway, not Enies Lobby, so you are wrong about that.
Bro did you forget how this entire argument started? You claimed CP9 arc as a whole is comparable to the 400 chapter Yonko arc. It's not. Then you tried to say "OK, I'll take off PH and DR" to please me for some reason. I could give two fucks about what you "care" about lol. Like I said, apples to oranges.
I said MAIN villain only for the 15th time. So once again you cant read. Crocodile, Enel, Lucci, Moria, Doflamingo, Caesar, and Katakuri. All Luffy opponents, all main villain of their respective arcs. Spandam is a secondary villain who's plot is not addressed by the main protagonist, rather his crew. Big Mom was a secondary villain in WCI, she is a background threat to the main protagonist. She is a secondary villain right now in Wano, not addressed by the main protagonist.
I'm I the user you provided the list to? No? Now you know why I asked.
I like how we are comparing new plot elements being introduced in in CP9 as being important, but if Wano elaborates on those things, its not important and it gives you something to complain about.
Let's look at your supposed list of CP9 and compare to Wano:
"1. Robin flashback that gave us the void century
2. World government.
3. Garp and Dragon being related to Luffy.
4. Ancient Weapon."
1. No, it INTRODUCED us to the concept. It did nothing regarding the void century at all. Wano on the other hand actually talks about the prophecy of bringing the dawn from a group of pirates who will liberate the world. It talks about Luffy's secret dream relating to Roger. It names Raftel as "Laugh Tale". It ties back
2. What about the WG? It INTRODUCED the concept of CP9, Enies Lobby and WG influence, but of 2 of those 3 things are central to enies Lobby. Not the overall plot. It's literally the CP9 arc lol, not relevant to the end of One Piece. CP0 is not CP9, you can thank Dressrosa for that, not Enies Lobby. Compare to Wano, The 2 Yonko being addressed were set up a decade ago as endgame characters, and the upper echelon of final antagonists in the series. CP9 arc does not introduce nor defeat the World Government
3. And how is that not comparable to Zoro being related to Ryuma or Ushimaru? What does that even mean? Does every arc have to have some bombshell relationship revealed for every character (even though that's been literally happening for Zoro snd Sanji)? Or are you saying Luffy is supposed to have some other massive revelation in Wano comparable to Enies Lobby? Oh wait he's literally the 2nd coming of Joyboy.
4. Again, what about it? Alabasta and Skypiea introduce the concept. CP9 LITERALLY only confirms its a ship. It does nothing else and achieves nothing more.
Keep in mind, that Wano is doing all of that and
- Introduced the concept of Rocks
- Tied Whitebeard and Roger to the main plot
- Sets up the endgame
- Propels Luffy and his crew to Yonko level
- Addresses and finalizes Law, Kid, Killer, Drake, Apoo and Hawkin's plotlines.
- Gave us actual confirmation about the WG gigantification projects in PH with the Numbers
- Introduced and confirmed the Oni Species
- Gave Jinbe his first real fight
- Gave Robin her first real fight in nearly 750 chapters
- Likely is giving us a new crewmate
- Sets up the beginnings of the actual Dawn and the final arc.
- And finishing a 400 chapter plotline over several SEPARATE arcs
- and so much more because I could care less about coming up with more points.
Peace out homeboy. I got no more time for this nonsense
@Paperchampion23 I am done dude. Not going to read any of that. You continue to change your definitions then claiming I am "cherry picking", then you refuse to lay out your list, then you continually keep introducing off topics contents. You are being dishonest in your arguments, not arguing in good faith at all just like a typical cult fanboy. The only thing missing in your typical fanboy response is "Why haven't you dropped One Piece".
Edit: Also, you obviously don't know what the definition of definition is. Giving examples is not a definition my guy.
Edit: Also, you obviously don't know what the definition of definition is. Giving examples is not a definition my guy.
Your definition,
"They have the same characters and villains".
then you said I cherry picked and then you gave an example for your definition:
""Enies Lobby is literally all fodder battles and main fights. It's the 2nd half of a bigger plotline. If you are going to do that, then you might as well ONLY count Onigashima, because that's literally what is comparable here".
Rule number fundamental one: you can't define with an example. That is basic that everyone learns in 3rd grade.
Then you said "main villian" but then I asked you define "main villian" then you continue to give yet another example for your definition:
"I said MAIN villain only for the 15th time. So once again you cant read. Crocodile, Enel, Lucci, Moria, Doflamingo, Caesar, and Katakuri. All Luffy opponents, all main villain of their respective arc "
You obviously don't know what "definition" means.
Nani?? Last time I checked this is my thread. You commented on my thread. It is like going inside a UBER driver car, telling them the directions, and then telling them to get out of their car.
"They have the same characters and villains".
then you said I cherry picked and then you gave an example for your definition:
""Enies Lobby is literally all fodder battles and main fights. It's the 2nd half of a bigger plotline. If you are going to do that, then you might as well ONLY count Onigashima, because that's literally what is comparable here".
Rule number fundamental one: you can't define with an example. That is basic that everyone learns in 3rd grade.
Then you said "main villian" but then I asked you define "main villian" then you continue to give yet another example for your definition:
"I said MAIN villain only for the 15th time. So once again you cant read. Crocodile, Enel, Lucci, Moria, Doflamingo, Caesar, and Katakuri. All Luffy opponents, all main villain of their respective arc "
You obviously don't know what "definition" means.
Nani?? Last time I checked this is my thread. You commented on my thread. It is like going inside a UBER driver car, telling them the directions, and then telling them to get out of their car.
1-Eliminate Kaido and BM!
2-Solidify Luffy,Zoro,Kidd and Law as Top Tiers!
3-Free Wano and open its borders!More territory for Luffy!
4-Straw Hats get powerful allies and one more Road Poneglyph!
5-Luffy fulfills his promise to Shanks!
6-Supernovas get recognized as a new rising power!
7-Straw Hats get more PU to continue their journey!
8-We got Roger and Oden flashback(top tier flash back)!
9-BB will also do something crazy to rival Luffy's new bounty!
10-Wano is a setup for the Laught Tale arc!
2-Solidify Luffy,Zoro,Kidd and Law as Top Tiers!
3-Free Wano and open its borders!More territory for Luffy!
4-Straw Hats get powerful allies and one more Road Poneglyph!
5-Luffy fulfills his promise to Shanks!
6-Supernovas get recognized as a new rising power!
7-Straw Hats get more PU to continue their journey!
8-We got Roger and Oden flashback(top tier flash back)!
9-BB will also do something crazy to rival Luffy's new bounty!
10-Wano is a setup for the Laught Tale arc!