Chapter Discussion What Zoro said was CAP…

Do you agree?


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Damn, the reasoning is out of this world...
His own ''father'' didn't move a finger when Ace went after BB and we're talking about the WSM but Luffy somehow made a mistake by not going to die with him :s
I didn't know that the SHs were babysitters that have to teleport around the world whenever someone they know is in ''danger''; let's also ignore the fact that they don't even know where Vivi is, they should have gone to Marijois and interrogate the Gorosei, it makes perfect sense.
 
Yes. That’s what they’ve done multiple times before.

Luffy running into Enies Lobby to investigate
Luffy running into WCI to investigate

The dialogue is really bad. Yes Zoros intention is in the right, but it’s like Usopp and the Merry, it comes off very very wrong.
Robin and Sanji are confirmed to be there with evidence.

These are bad examples. Proving my point for me.
 
Ace's death is the least of it and I don't understand how you can keep that simple fact. Ace lived his adventure and when the time came, Luffy tried everything he could to save him. Furthermore, considering Luffy's power at the time, he did too much. He cannot be blamed for anything.

And with Vivi the same thing happens, at the moment they can't do anything. Vivi is older and she knows how to take care of herself. If she finds herself in trouble and the Miguis know about it, they will do everything they can to save her. Whether they succeed (which obviously they will) or not, there would be nothing to complain about.
Vivi cannot take care of herself….. That was Cap on Zoros part heavily….. And it makes no sense at all especially from Luffys perspective of all people.
 

Where is Zoro saying they should abandon her how would marching to Marijoa blinldessly picking fight with Marine hq help when they have no info of her whereabouts
I don't know about the others, but for me, Zoro's part about this part is right.
The part about waiting until they know more details is also right.

The nakama are just being reactionary, so they're emotional. Even if Zoro didn't speak here, Jinbe would cool things down with reasoning.

What baffles me is the part where he basically says "wait until Vivi needs help". At a glance, this sentence is harmless. But for me, Vivi's dad just got assassinated, they're in a foreign land, and the enemy is explicitly either Revolutionary (Sabo) or World Government (Marijois). The gap between Vivi and enemy is so big, isn't this time for her to have help? It doesn't matter if Vivi can take care of herself, but again, the difference in strength is large.

---

As a sidenote, this is finally the time Zoro is used as a plot device to push a certain narrative, and everyone lose their shit. People act the same when Sanji is "being used" by Oda like this. So it's normal occurence in the fandom
 
Zoro was smart to point out Vivi likely isn't even there, along with their manpower at the moment not being adequate to beat the Navy in their territory but Vivi's not on some grand, important like Ace was and she's not a 550 million berrie Emperor Commander with a boss fruit who can take care of themselves against 99% of threats, where trusting them makes sense. She's missing after her father was assassinated and the last time they saw her she couldn't even deal with a Bananagator on her own.

She probably needs help at the moment but since Oda has Zoro saying this, things'll probably work out in the end regardless if the Straw Hats do anything to assist now or a 100 chapters from now. Oda's just pushing this narrative so the Straw Hats can continue on their adventure even though their friends are being impacted by recent events.

Hopefully the Straw Hats put effort into gathering info like contacting or meeting up with the Revolutionaries though I suppose meeting Bonney allows them to gain info without any attempt of effort on their part.

Overall, Zoro has the right attitude. Keeping Luffy in checks is what's expected of him as a character but his reasoning threw me off. Ace comparison fell flat in my opinion since Ace and Vivi aren't really comparable.
 
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Everytime the Straw Hats save an Island....

*If you ever needs us, we'll be there...."

*Vivi goes Missing*

Luffy: "Time to make good on all those times we said we'd be there for people if they get in trouble....."

Zoro: " Just here me out Luffy.... How about.... We don't?"
And how do you suggest they help Vivi? Do you want them to go to Alabasta? What happens if when they get there they find out that she is going to be executed by the Government or by Kurohigue and she dies because they don't arrive in time to help her?

:zosleepy:

Zorobros are so much into this "Zoro level headed" and "Vice captain stuff" that what he says doesn't needs to make that much sense or have an actual payoff, it just needs to somehow look cool

Even if Zoro is proven wrong or isn't shown taking a good look at the full picture

He is trying to arguably avoid unnecessary trouble for the crew, this is fair and very reasonable, but it doesn't go beyond that. He is saying he has "faith on Vivi"... like... Ok, fine, but how is this supposed to be something "level headed" when he is relying on abstract terms? Having faith in Vivi, who can probably get beaten by a Gifter, means he is being smart?

All they know is: Sabo didn't killed Cobra, someone else did.

Why should they even believe Vivi is ok? Having faith is actually the only thing to do here if they aren't willing to go help her, and thats all
:milaugh:

Sanji was also extremely worried in WCI about a lot of stuff, and those stuff influenced his decisions, until he had nowhere to run anymore, ending up in a break down and accepting that things would need to solve themselves in a way or another, even if the whole crew died in the process without Sanji not being able to sacrifice himself to keep everyone safe (not just the crew), as he would prefer to do previously. Zoro was never forced to do that or put in such a situation that drained so much of him mentally speaking apart from the usual obvious consequences of dying in battle against an enemy that everyone in the crew may suffer from. Even in Kuma's situation, Sanji was there to do the same thing, and afterwards he reassured that Luffy and nobody else knew about Zoro's sacrifice in respect to Zoro.

Im sure that these same guys that used to talk trash about Sanji because of his worryings are the same ones trying to convince Zoro is a genius and "vice captain" for that one. Mind you that Zoro is in an extremely more favorable situation, with no actual pressure, death sentence or responsability feeling for someone elses decisions and lives, unlike Sanji was in WCI.

It would be easier for Zoro to say: "Dude we can't live other people's lives, even if they are our nakama, we can't control everything that happens, so we shouldn't get into huge trouble for that matter"

Curiously, im sure that if Sanji said something like that he would be called: a pussy, coward, weak, doesn't trust his captain and his crew, didn't learned anything from WCI, doesn't cares about helping his nakama, he is selfish.

But since its Zoro, the "Zoro is the official Vice Captain" boys start jerking off each other and trying to convince everyone how much of a brilliant Vice Captain Zoro is.

And thats why Zoro and Sanji are the wings. While Zoro has a more cold headed approach to some situations, to the point the crew gets shocked for his apparent lack of empathy and get mad at him, Sanji sometimes brings up the more emotionally driven ones, and both are extremely important, balancing each other.

In Usopp's case for example, while Sanji was the one that convinced Nami that Zoro had a good point, which settled the deal about Usopp's possible return to the crew, he also helped Usopp regain his self confidence. He saved him in the Sea Train and convinced him to not give up but to help Robin because he could still be very useful back in EL, despite the flaws that everyone may have.

The only reason Kinemon is alive and Wano happened lies on the fact that Sanji decided to go all out at helping Kinemon, simply because of the empathy he had towards him.

And im sure Sanji agrees with Zoro here, just like he does almost the whole time when the matter is keeping the crew out of unnecessary trouble.

All Sanji said was "Please be safe!", he hopes Vivi is doing fine because he likes her that much, but he knows he isn't in a spot that makes him be able to do something about it. Other than that, Zoro and Sanji insulting each other is just their regular routine.
That in your post you talk more about Sanji than about Zoro or about the situation to be discussed on the subject already leaves you a little in evidence. You cannot live without comparing them and on top of that it is a bad comparison.

Sanji in Whole Cake should have asked Luffy for help when he first saw him and he could have done it perfectly, but he preferred to kick him. Sanji had more options and chose a bad one especially knowing Luffy.

In this case, Zoro or the gang, rather, has no other options, they can only wait for new news since it is impossible to find someone without a Vivre Card.

Imagine that they go to Alabasta and when they arrive they read in the newspaper that Vivi is going to be executed by the Government or Kuro in a week? Vivi is dead because she no longer gives them time to help her. They imagine that they go to Mary Geoise and face the whole world, they manage to win but two members of the gang died and then they find out that Vivi was sent to Alabasta by Kuma and is safe and sound. You have lost two Nakama for nothing.

Zoro has not said that he does not want to help Vivi, nor that he is not worried about her, he has said that we have to wait to see if she needs his help and where she is obviously.

Dude remember when People shit on Sanji for leaving page one and Ulti to Nami and Usopp?

But now the same people think that Zoro wabting to leave Vivi a non combatant in the hands of the most dangerous organization in the world is right
And what is that dangerous organization? Do you know where Vivi is? Too bad you're not in the band so you can explain it to her so they can go help her.
 
Zoro is right, he's the mom/dad or the crew, he's correct avout Ace and Vivi. Even if they die, there's no guarantee they will save her anyway when they don't know for sure where exactly Vivi is located.

The rest are salty because they know deep down that Zoro is right, but can't admit it because of how they feel about Vivi.
 
Zoro is right, he's the mom/dad or the crew, he's correct avout Ace and Vivi. Even if they die, there's no guarantee they will save her anyway when they don't know for sure where exactly Vivi is located.

The rest are salty because they know deep down that Zoro is right, but can't admit it because of how they feel about Vivi.
No Jimbei and Robin are…
 
This scene is incomplete though? Zoro didn't stop luffy just because Vivi "needs to have her own adventures" he also mentioned the very obvious fact of them not having any clue as to where she could be. Luffy wanted to go to Alabasta but Zoro said that she was kidnapped from Mary Geoise.
He is right. In this scene, Zoro is simply being the voice of reason. If they do figure out where she is and realize she truly needs help, you betcha Zoro is gonna be right behind Luffy, backing him up. The entire SH crew regrets not having been there for Luffy at MF when Ace died so there's no way it'll happen again.

As to the argument about Ace. I am conflicted.
On one hand, As a reader, I understood that Zoro is simply reminding Luffy of his own opinions and principles of not interfering in other people's lives unless absolutely necessary. Even when the person in trouble was his own brother.
But on the other hand, I do agree that it's disturbing that Oda used Ace. Precisely because of how things ended with him. Linking the present situation with Vivi to what happened with Ace kinda raises my hackles because it felt like a bad omen. A foreshadowing of some sort.
 
Zoro is right, he's the mom/dad or the crew, he's correct avout Ace and Vivi. Even if they die, there's no guarantee they will save her anyway when they don't know for sure where exactly Vivi is located.

The rest are salty because they know deep down that Zoro is right, but can't admit it because of how they feel about Vivi.

Nami and Chopper are actually mad because Zoro doesn't seem to really worry about Vivi like they think he should, his cold headed approach gives that feeling of lack of empathy. Sanji certainly also thinks the same, since he likes Vivi a lot, but Zoro and Sanji insult each other for fun the whole time, so whatever.

The thing is he only seems to worry about the troubles they may end up facing on these situations, which is a fair reasoning, but it doesn't turn what he said absolutely correct and the best decision to make depending on what you're looking for, especially if we are talking about an actual crewmember like Vivi that just got her dad killed, is said to be missing while Luffy's brother is being accused of murdering him.

Luffy knows that Zoro has a good point, otherwise he would've already set the course to Alabasta or Mariejoa, Luffy's decision is final and he was the only one who expressed desire to go help Vivi immediatelly without even thinking straight, something that Sanji didn't do for example, because he most likely agrees that what Zoro said makes sense as of now, which is expected, Sanji hardly acts so inconsequently like Luffy, something that Zoro does sometimes.
 
This scene is incomplete though? Zoro didn't stop luffy just because Vivi "needs to have her own adventures" he also mentioned the very obvious fact of them not having any clue as to where she could be. Luffy wanted to go to Alabasta but Zoro said that she was kidnapped from Mary Geoise.
He is right. In this scene, Zoro is simply being the voice of reason. If they do figure out where she is and realize she truly needs help, you betcha Zoro is gonna be right behind Luffy, backing him up. The entire SH crew regrets not having been there for Luffy at MF when Ace died so there's no way it'll happen again.

As to the argument about Ace. I am conflicted.
On one hand, As a reader, I understood that Zoro is simply reminding Luffy of his own opinions and principles of not interfering in other people's lives unless absolutely necessary. Even when the person in trouble was his own brother.
But on the other hand, I do agree that it's disturbing that Oda used Ace. Precisely because of how things ended with him. Linking the present situation with Vivi to what happened with Ace kinda raises my hackles because it felt like a bad omen. A foreshadowing of some sort.
Ace death is not relevant in this case. The important thing and what Zoro refers to is that Ace lived his adventure and when he needed help, he received it from both Shirohigue himself and Luffy.

You can't fault Shirohigue or Luffy for not doing their best to help Ace, they failed, but they tried their best.

And the same is true for Vivi, when the Muguis really know that she needs help, it doesn't matter if they have to risk their lives, I'm pretty sure Zoro will be the first to go to help.

Until then, unfortunately, they can only wait for new news.
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Nami and Chopper are actually mad because Zoro doesn't seem to really worry about Vivi like they think he should, his cold headed approach gives that feeling of lack of empathy. Sanji certainly also thinks the same, since he likes Vivi a lot, but Zoro and Sanji insult each other for fun the whole time, so whatever.

The thing is he only seems to worry about the troubles they may end up facing on these situations, which is a fair reasoning, but it doesn't turn what he said absolutely correct and the best decision to make, especially if we are talking about an actual crewmember like Vivi that just got her dad killed, is said to be missing while Luffy's brother is being accused of murdering him.

Luffy knows that Zoro has a good point, otherwise he would've already set the course to Alabasta or Mariejoa, Luffy's decision is final and he was the only one who expressed desire to go help Vivi immediatelly without even thinking straight, something that Sanji didn't do for example, because he most likely agrees that what Zoro said makes sense as of now, which is expected, Sanji hardly acts so inconsequently like Luffy, something that Zoro does sometimes.
Zoro is not the most expressive character in the world. Just because he seems cold doesn't mean he isn't worried about Vivi. On more than one occasion Zoro has been shown to care about the entire gang, including Sanji.

Right now so much Vivi. Yamato, Momo and Kinemon are also part of the gang and Zoro cares about them the most. For example telling Yamato that he be careful with Momo's feelings.
 
Ace death is not relevant in this case. The important thing and what Zoro refers to is that Ace lived his adventure and when he needed help, he received it from both Shirohigue himself and Luffy.

You can't fault Shirohigue or Luffy for not doing their best to help Ace, they failed, but they tried their best.

And the same is true for Vivi, when the Muguis really know that she needs help, it doesn't matter if they have to risk their lives, I'm pretty sure Zoro will be the first to go to help.

Until then, unfortunately, they can only wait for new news.
That's exactly what I said. Zoro is saying that Vivi is an adult and can handle her own problems and they shouldn't interfere unless they know for sure that she truly needs help. He is right.

I only mentioned Ace's death because Oda seems to have planted it there on purpose to link the current situation with Vivi and what happened at MF with Ace. Is what I'm saying.
 
Zoro a known dumbass.

even when tryna say the right thing, he uses a wrong example. That’s where they could’ve used Laws advice. Something that sounded intelligent, with the right delivery
:kayneshrug:
 

Reborn

Throughout Heaven & Earth,I alone am d Honored One
Ace died to save Luffy. So, in a way it's Luffy's fault.
It's not Luffy's fault lol

Ace died because he was too hot headed.

Everyone told him to back away from Akainu and not to fall for his words yet he acted impulsively to fight Akainu.

This lead to the final moments where Akainu went after luffy causing ace death


Ace death is his own fault - not WB, not Luffy's, nor Akainu's
 
Ace's death was because he was trying to protect Luffy 1 and 2 he let akainu get under his skin. Luffy trusting ace wasn't the problem as if he'd lived he'd probably have left mf and grown much stronger by now. And zoro is right that challenging the marines currently does nothing to help. It's way better to trust they can manage and wait for a opportunity to help opens than to just blindly charge into the situation you can do nothing about. Worse yet is the sh's would lose if they did try luffy's plan so not only would they not help the situation but could potentially sink the crew.
 

Reborn

Throughout Heaven & Earth,I alone am d Honored One
I want Vivi dead now just to see these bois pissed at Zoro. :milaugh:
Lmao


They are salty seeing VC making a rational decision for the crew.


If sanji would have said it then decision would be good but since zoro said it then suddenly it's an issue lol



All they are saying is Luffy should infiltrate or investigate but no one is saying how he can when they literally have no info on where vivi is or how to infiltrate MJ like RA (Luffy infiltrated ID with help from Kuja pirates) but here Shs don't even know where RA is


But...but Shs should investigate or infiltrate... lmfao
 
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