Current Events Will Kaido be defeated from Luffy's island sized punch?

[Garp the Fist]

I think there’s a bit of a difference between “I’m finishing this for good!” and “one more hit! And if that doesn’t work I’ve lost!”

Luffy’s certainly getting ready to finish the fight but it’s not so certain that it’s the literal final blow.

I’m also horribly reminded of Leo Bazooka and “this is the end!”… when it most certainly was not the end and we had to wait for the ten minutes and “one more move.”

Like I said, won’t complain if it’s the final hit, but think it’s more likely to be the precursor for a “Luffy vs Kaido” final fight chapter.

 

[Loonarian]

I don't think so, and it's primarily because of the role of the Wano citizens.

Oda tends to have the citizens (and by citizens I mean non combatants) play an active role in fighting against their oppressors as part of their character development, especially post time skip.

Fishman Island: the citizens pleading with the Strawhats to defeat Hody, showing their development in overcoming their distrust of humans.

Dressrosa: the citizens trying to block Birdcage, literally fighting against the strings that have controlled their lives for years. Also tried to buy time for Luffy by confronting Doflamingo.

Kaidou has been consistently mocking the will of the citizens, basically calling them weak willed losers. Having him be defeated in the next two chapters while the biggest contributions the citizens made is lighting lanterns and making wishes doesn't exactly prove Kaidou wrong.

You could argue the samurai represent the Wano citizens, but I'd say the samurai represent the fighting force/military that Oda always incorporates in these arcs. Besides, despite Kaidou fighting them on Onigashima, he still made to sure to call out the Wano citizens for having weak wills.

Or maybe Oda decides to take the development of the citizens in a way he hasn't before, which is possible but...I sincerely doubt it lol. Especially after having the arcs main antagonist constantly mock them.

 

[stealthblack]

90% yes, 10% no

 

[Kishido]

He can't be defeated.He will be down and everyone will celebrate while Luffy is out of gas.

Kaidou comes back but so is Zoro for the ZKK

 

[Paperchampion23]

I don't think so, and it's primarily because of the role of the Wano citizens.

Oda tends to have the citizens (and by citizens I mean non combatants) play an active role in fighting against their oppressors as part of their character development, especially post time skip.

Fishman Island: the citizens pleading with the Strawhats to defeat Hody, showing their development in overcoming their distrust of humans.

Dressrosa: the citizens trying to block Birdcage, literally fighting against the strings that have controlled their lives for years. Also tried to buy time for Luffy by confronting Doflamingo.

Kaidou has been consistently mocking the will of the citizens, basically calling them weak willed losers. Having him be defeated in the next two chapters while the biggest contributions the citizens made is lighting lanterns and making wishes doesn't exactly prove Kaidou wrong.

You could argue the samurai represent the Wano citizens, but I'd say the samurai represent the fighting force/military that Oda always incorporates in these arcs. Besides, despite Kaidou fighting them on Onigashima, he still made to sure to call out the Wano citizens for having weak wills.

Or maybe Oda decides to take the development of the citizens in a way he hasn't before, which is possible but...I sincerely doubt it lol. Especially after having the arcs main antagonist constantly mock them.

.....you have 5000 Wano citizens doing just that, fighting their oppressors.

Oda has left the capital alone on purpose. There is a reason scenes like this exist:

See, people think these scenes are a waste of panel/chapter space, but if you don't actually read them, then you don't get what Oda is going for, especially when he does this:

Oda very clearly believes the citizens of Wano have suffered enough through starvation/slavery. He has made it thematically relevant that they do not see this battle. They have loved ones who are already doing this for them.

Then you just have the themes behind the lanterns themselves. As @Bounty has pointed out to me, the lanterns have actually been a theme since the before the raid, then have been teased throughout it as to signify the end of the festival and all of Wano's wishes into the sky.

 

[Roo]

I don't think so, and it's primarily because of the role of the Wano citizens.

Oda tends to have the citizens (and by citizens I mean non combatants) play an active role in fighting against their oppressors as part of their character development, especially post time skip.

Fishman Island: the citizens pleading with the Strawhats to defeat Hody, showing their development in overcoming their distrust of humans.

Dressrosa: the citizens trying to block Birdcage, literally fighting against the strings that have controlled their lives for years. Also tried to buy time for Luffy by confronting Doflamingo.

Kaidou has been consistently mocking the will of the citizens, basically calling them weak willed losers. Having him be defeated in the next two chapters while the biggest contributions the citizens made is lighting lanterns and making wishes doesn't exactly prove Kaidou wrong.

You could argue the samurai represent the Wano citizens, but I'd say the samurai represent the fighting force/military that Oda always incorporates in these arcs. Besides, despite Kaidou fighting them on Onigashima, he still made to sure to call out the Wano citizens for having weak wills.

Or maybe Oda decides to take the development of the citizens in a way he hasn't before, which is possible but...I sincerely doubt it lol. Especially after having the arcs main antagonist constantly mock them.

The citizens are laying out their wishes to be saved through the lanters.

The lanterns are used in japanese folkore to speak with the dead irrc.

The scabbards are considered to be "dead" by the wano people.

I think it's very obvious why Oda wants to keep the Wano citizens oblivious to the actual battle until the very end

 

[Reborn]

I don't remember that Luffy ever landed final attack with such enthusiasm and confidence to finish an opponent.


He was always on his last rope and then pulled everything with a named attack to defeat an opponent.

Also, we got good fight chapter with Luffy and his opponent squaring off (Luffy vs kata/Croc/Lucci) or a climatic rise of Luffy (Lucci/Doffy) before landing finishing blow.

But as of now, don't see this at all.


Luffy will defeat kaido. But this punch isn't causing that defeat.

 

[Paperchampion23]

I don't remember that Luffy ever landed final attack with such enthusiasm and confidence to finish an opponent.


He was always on his last rope and then pulled everything with a named attack to defeat an opponent.

Also, we got good fight chapter with Luffy and his opponent squaring off (Luffy vs kata/Croc/Lucci) or a climatic rise of Luffy (Lucci/Doffy) before landing finishing blow.

But as of now, don't see this at all.


Luffy will defeat kaido. But this punch isn't causing that defeat.

In every other fight, he isn't the smiling Sun God Nika lol

And we have gotten those chapters between Luffy and Kaido, 1037, 1042, 1045 and this chapter all display the type of back and forth you are describing

 

[ShadowStyle369]

1. That is possible, but it really does feel like the point of Orochi breaking free was to have him try one last time to destroy the Kozuki bloodline, only for him to die in vain realizing that he failed at the one task he spent 20 years obsessing over. I feel like if they were actually trying to make Orochi seem like a real threat they would've given him more than a few panels this chapter. And even if he doesn't burn to death, he'll be treated as an afterthought when Denjiro or some other scabbard kills him
2. It is that simple. Read this page again

Spoiler

A. They say Kaido is at the end of his rope
B. They establish that Kaido being defeated will cause him to drop Onigashima
C. Luffy tells Momo to get ready right as he throws the punch.

Spoiler

Meaning the point of Luffy's line here was for Momo to get ready to hold up Onigashima because this punch is going to take down Kaido

Point is it really doesn't seem like Kaido is going to get a big power boost here. Everything points to him being taken down here and now.

And as for the part on Kaido's Awakening, that's also possible but I feel like if that actually was his Awakening form, it would've been given more attention than it got.

1.well for me orochi is never really a threat per say but ultimately if denjiro or another scabbard kills him then so be it,my thing is in 1009 they chopped his heads and said you will be judged in hell if denjiro or the scabbards were aware of orochi ability they should of just cut his head again and be done with him the fact that he has a single head now just points to momo or someone using ama no habakiri on him. Also we see that the water is strong enough for people to get swept away in it so orochi/hiyori could be pushed somewhere together and from there she is his captive ...who knows.

2.Clearly i have read the page lol all of what you said may very well happen luffy may be about to send kaido flying ,drop onigashma, and everyone thinks luffy has won because of this,but again my thing is how many of these people luffy and hyogorou the more important people know that kaido is awakened gives him recovery speed (chap 544)

3.I agree on the awakening but also think these other forms oda draws at times of kaido has to be something to do with it. Maybe the whole idea is to make kaido awaken in his dragon form and it will look totally different who knows. As one that thinks his awakening will be highlighted though same as you i can only think that this punch will lead to that moment so while yea luffy may defeat kaido here he won't be done.

 

[JoNdule]

I think there’s a bit of a difference between “I’m finishing this for good!” and “one more hit! And if that doesn’t work I’ve lost!”

Luffy’s certainly getting ready to finish the fight but it’s not so certain that it’s the literal final blow.

I’m also horribly reminded of Leo Bazooka and “this is the end!”… when it most certainly was not the end and we had to wait for the ten minutes and “one more move.”

Like I said, won’t complain if it’s the final hit, but think it’s more likely to be the precursor for a “Luffy vs Kaido” final fight chapter.

He already had the moment "one more move" last round and the fight ended because Mr. Go interfered

 

[IsaziSempi]

He's about to pull a tuguro for sure

 

[Garp the Fist]

A sizeable chunk of the samurai are actually just citizens who have no prior experience fighting due to Orochi’s banning of training but have decided to take up arms anyway, from what I remember.

 

[Roo]

A sizeable chunk of the samurai are actually just citizens who have no prior experience fighting due to Orochi’s banning of training but have decided to take up arms anyway, from what I remember.

It's a duality.

The people in Onigashima are fine with dying as long as they can save Wano meanwhile the people in the capitol are putting all their wishes and hope in their lanters, and those wishes will be answered by their same neighbors.

The only conflict I see here is how okay they're with dying, but I expect someone to wake them up so they try to save their own lives when the island is near crashing

 

[Paperchampion23]

He already had the moment "one more move" last round and the fight ended because Mr. Go interfered

Plus, he didn't say it with confidence.

There is a very clear difference between that chapter and this one. This one has "finality" to it and ties to a lot of other things outside of his punch too (lanterns, Momo moving the island finally, Samurai accepting their fate, etc).

 

[JoNdule]

Plus, he didn't say it with confidence.

There is a very clear difference between that chapter and this one. This one has "finality" to it and ties to a lot of other things outside of his punch too (lanterns, Momo moving the island finally, Samurai accepting their fate, etc).

In this chapter He wasn't sure like how he wasn't sure if snakeman can beat Kata when he said "if after this" before going into g4
Then he was confident when doing KC "don't need to cause I'm ending it now" something like that

Same stuff here,
Oda isn't gonna repeat the same stuff
G4 failed, G5 new mode won't fail with its finishing move "This is the end"

 

[Julius]

He can't be defeated.He will be down and everyone will celebrate while Luffy is out of gas.

Kaidou comes back but so is Zoro for the ZKK

Man it's so funny seeing a Sanji fan say that here on WG

A true gem

 

[R A I T E I I I]

I think he will do the "5th move" EtenBoby was talking about, the "Immovable" or whatever.

Maybe it will be a Rob Lucci style ending, where Kaido hardens himself and tries to be the ultimate tank

In the 5 Wisdom Kings, the one in the center (most important one?) is the immovable. That's still to come.

Where can I read about tha

 

[ArturCantSpeakJapanese]

It's such a weird spot. He can't cock back to really hit Kaido, so it resembles a giant push. Where will Kaido land? Where does the fist take him without putting others in danger?

Because I'm assuming that this is Oda's potential answer to what they see in the sky, if not Zoro. But the people of Wano would have no fucking clue what they're seeing. How does that inspire hope? If Kaido gets squished to the ground, I don't think they'll feel free just because of that

Best case scenario, it keeps Kaido in place for Zoro to take him out

yeah what kaido said about luffy also applies to him. "they wont believe you lost" "i should have just cut off your head and shown it to them". if luffy just punches kaido really hard no one is going to believe he's really been beaten. and theyll be right not to
[automerge]1650644206[/automerge]

The poll results though lmao

I'm nervous for the fallout of this fight. I don't think a lot of people are going to be happy with the outcome and have set themselves up for pretty wild expectations.

Like anyone who voted yes could totally be wrong and the fight could still continue to get more epic, sure. But when you objectively read chapter 1047 without bias, it's very clear the fight is at its climax. Everything around Luffy's fight is ending. He's saying its his last attack, and there are signs that point to Kaido only having 1 more "major" attack (his attack names).

Like...come on guys, when has Luffy ever truly lost a fight even after losing multiple times? Kaido is no exception to the villain gallery. He will lose just like the others. As will future opponents. The last time Luffy said it was his final attack (G4, OKG in 1042), he was not confident about winning. This scene in 1047 is VERY different. This is the first time Luffy feels confident in his attacks, and it thematically aligns with the lanterns, Kaido losing his grip on Onigashima, and Momo moving the island.

i think one major thematic element that isnt talked about enough w this fight and the wano conflict is that its actually in a way the opposite format of every other big fight in one piece. i think you even talked about it recently. I'll use the SBS quote since thats the best source on this idea.

D: How come Luffy never kills his enemies? Throughout "One Piece" manga so far, he didn't kill Mohji and Helmeppo, but Axe-arm Morgan was killed by Zoro, why is that?​

O: Hmm! That's a very good question. First, I have to announce that Morgan is still alive. He's currently in jail, where he was placed by his former subordinates. Why doesn't Luffy kill his enemies? Because in that era, everyone uses their lives to fight for their dreams. For an enemy, when their dream has been shattered, it is the same as losing a fight, and as painful as death. I believe, for a pirate not to kill an enemy, it's giving them a 2nd chance to fight for their dreams.​

so heres the inversion: Kaido actually STARTED the arc with his dreams already crushed. He's explicitly depressed, suicidal, at a low point, drinking himself to death, has no opponents left, hes just killing time until he dies of old age while he ruins everyone's lives. What Luffy is actually doing now is giving him his dreams back. He's rekindling an old flame of romance and adventure with Big Mom. He wants to find the One Piece again. He's having the best fight he's presumably had in decades if not his entire life. He has a new rival. He's smiling in almost every page he's in now.

Based on what we know about Haki and emotional/mental state, and what Kaido is saying in this chapter, there's a very real possibility that he's actually getting stronger, not weaker. His haki has every reason to increase in power the more he's enjoying this fight and feeling like he's in his glory days again. It's not like Whitebeard, where he fought against thousands of men in complete despair because he was watching his family be torn apart in front of him and was unable to stop it. Kaido is having a great time! He's happier than he's been since he was a teenager! Luffy might think he's winning, but he's just giving Kaido more of a reason to come back and beat him the more things escalate.

Like, it was even shown in this chapter. Kaido was winning. Luffy powered up and became the most ridiculous and unpredictable fighter we've seen in one piece yet and Kaido is still one step ahead and dodging lightning bolts and using Luffy's own bounce power awakening against him to do bagua combos. Luffy's not breaking Kaido's dreams, he's rebuilding them.

 

[stealthblack]

This punch will send kaidou in the same hole linlin fall and they get reunited

 

[ShadowStyle369]

yeah what kaido said about luffy also applies to him. "they wont believe you lost" "i should have just cut off your head and shown it to them". if luffy just punches kaido really hard no one is going to believe he's really been beaten. and theyll be right not to
[automerge]1650644206[/automerge]

i think one major thematic element that isnt talked about enough w this fight and the wano conflict is that its actually in a way the opposite format of every other big fight in one piece. i think you even talked about it recently. I'll use the SBS quote since thats the best source on this idea.



so heres the inversion: Kaido actually STARTED the arc with his dreams already crushed. He's explicitly depressed, suicidal, at a low point, drinking himself to death, has no opponents left, hes just killing time until he dies of old age while he ruins everyone's lives. What Luffy is actually doing now is giving him his dreams back. He's rekindling an old flame of romance and adventure with Big Mom. He wants to find the One Piece again. He's having the best fight he's presumably had in decades if not his entire life. He has a new rival. He's smiling in almost every page he's in now.

Based on what we know about Haki and emotional/mental state, and what Kaido is saying in this chapter, there's a very real possibility that he's actually getting stronger, not weaker. His haki has every reason to increase in power the more he's enjoying this fight and feeling like he's in his glory days again. It's not like Whitebeard, where he fought against thousands of men in complete despair because he was watching his family be torn apart in front of him and was unable to stop it. Kaido is having a great time! He's happier than he's been since he was a teenager! Luffy might think he's winning, but he's just giving Kaido more of a reason to come back and beat him the more things escalate.

Like, it was even shown in this chapter. Kaido was winning. Luffy powered up and became the most ridiculous and unpredictable fighter we've seen in one piece yet and Kaido is still one step ahead and dodging lightning bolts and using Luffy's own bounce power awakening against him to do bagua combos. Luffy's not breaking Kaido's dreams, he's rebuilding them.

damn that inversion is nice!!!:cheers::cheers::cheers: