Current Events Will Kaido be defeated from Luffy's island sized punch?

[Fn Lucci]

yeah what kaido said about luffy also applies to him. "they wont believe you lost" "i should have just cut off your head and shown it to them". if luffy just punches kaido really hard no one is going to believe he's really been beaten. and theyll be right not to

Yeah that's a good callback. Even if the idea of Luffy using the giant sword is almost completely unfeasible, it still ends up working for the story better than twenty years of oppression being immediately remedied because Luffy's hand was really big when he punched Kaido.

Like... almost no one knows who the fuck Luffytaro is on the ground. Even those who do can hardly recognize him, least of all because of the distance to the sky. We've beem following this story for over a thousand chapters. Can you imagine if the only OP you saw was random chapters from Act One and all of a sudden, the finish of the arc?

This is before we get to the idea of how this also has to include the wrap up if the floating island and the conclusion of Orochi

 

[Paperchampion23]

yeah what kaido said about luffy also applies to him. "they wont believe you lost" "i should have just cut off your head and shown it to them". if luffy just punches kaido really hard no one is going to believe he's really been beaten. and theyll be right not to
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i think one major thematic element that isnt talked about enough w this fight and the wano conflict is that its actually in a way the opposite format of every other big fight in one piece. i think you even talked about it recently. I'll use the SBS quote since thats the best source on this idea.



so heres the inversion: Kaido actually STARTED the arc with his dreams already crushed. He's explicitly depressed, suicidal, at a low point, drinking himself to death, has no opponents left, hes just killing time until he dies of old age while he ruins everyone's lives. What Luffy is actually doing now is giving him his dreams back. He's rekindling an old flame of romance and adventure with Big Mom. He wants to find the One Piece again. He's having the best fight he's presumably had in decades if not his entire life. He has a new rival. He's smiling in almost every page he's in now.

Based on what we know about Haki and emotional/mental state, and what Kaido is saying in this chapter, there's a very real possibility that he's actually getting stronger, not weaker. His haki has every reason to increase in power the more he's enjoying this fight and feeling like he's in his glory days again. It's not like Whitebeard, where he fought against thousands of men in complete despair because he was watching his family be torn apart in front of him and was unable to stop it. Kaido is having a great time! He's happier than he's been since he was a teenager! Luffy might think he's winning, but he's just giving Kaido more of a reason to come back and beat him the more things escalate.

Like, it was even shown in this chapter. Kaido was winning. Luffy powered up and became the most ridiculous and unpredictable fighter we've seen in one piece yet and Kaido is still one step ahead and dodging lightning bolts and using Luffy's own bounce power awakening against him to do bagua combos. Luffy's not breaking Kaido's dreams, he's rebuilding them.

I think you guys are getting way too deep in supposed arc themes and what that means for conclusions on fights or villains. Just look at what is in front of you on the pages that come out.

Everything you are saying is fine, it still has zero bearing on Kaido still losing from Luffys next hit. Luffy was losing against Katakuri, until he wasn't. Same with Lucci. Same with most villains tbh.

 

[WaidoWSC]

yeah what kaido said about luffy also applies to him. "they wont believe you lost" "i should have just cut off your head and shown it to them". if luffy just punches kaido really hard no one is going to believe he's really been beaten. and theyll be right not to
[automerge]1650644206[/automerge]

i think one major thematic element that isnt talked about enough w this fight and the wano conflict is that its actually in a way the opposite format of every other big fight in one piece. i think you even talked about it recently. I'll use the SBS quote since thats the best source on this idea.



so heres the inversion: Kaido actually STARTED the arc with his dreams already crushed. He's explicitly depressed, suicidal, at a low point, drinking himself to death, has no opponents left, hes just killing time until he dies of old age while he ruins everyone's lives. What Luffy is actually doing now is giving him his dreams back. He's rekindling an old flame of romance and adventure with Big Mom. He wants to find the One Piece again. He's having the best fight he's presumably had in decades if not his entire life. He has a new rival. He's smiling in almost every page he's in now.

Based on what we know about Haki and emotional/mental state, and what Kaido is saying in this chapter, there's a very real possibility that he's actually getting stronger, not weaker. His haki has every reason to increase in power the more he's enjoying this fight and feeling like he's in his glory days again. It's not like Whitebeard, where he fought against thousands of men in complete despair because he was watching his family be torn apart in front of him and was unable to stop it. Kaido is having a great time! He's happier than he's been since he was a teenager! Luffy might think he's winning, but he's just giving Kaido more of a reason to come back and beat him the more things escalate.

Like, it was even shown in this chapter. Kaido was winning. Luffy powered up and became the most ridiculous and unpredictable fighter we've seen in one piece yet and Kaido is still one step ahead and dodging lightning bolts and using Luffy's own bounce power awakening against him to do bagua combos. Luffy's not breaking Kaido's dreams, he's rebuilding them.

That sounds like an interesting concept ngl.

But on the other hand, it is too much of Wano dragging. If Oda only cut so much useless stuff in all three arcs, this idea would fit perfectly (without the feeling „of being dragged too much“) and giving him some unpredictable moments, of how different he could actually tell the of a fight

 

[Fn Lucci]

I think you guys are getting way too deep in supposed arc themes and what that means for conclusions on fights or villains. Just look at what is in front of you on the pages that come out.

Everything you are saying is fine, it still has zero bearing on Kaido still losing from Luffys next hit. Luffy was losing against Katakuri, until he wasn't. Same with Lucci. Same with most villains tbh.

He's been dodging Luffy and striking with his own moves. You think he's going to try to use his final attack to clash with the big hand and lose completely, rather than just hitting Luffy's body?

 

[Nikuzi]

Yeah I think this punch is gonna do it.

 

[Paperchampion23]

He's been dodging Luffy and striking with his own moves. You think he's going to try to use his final attack to clash with the big hand and lose completely, rather than just hitting Luffy's body?

No actually lol.

Luffy has been tanking his moves just the same way. It does not matter. Kaido will probably attack Luffy. Luffy will tank the move, just as he's tanked everything else the same way. Then the Fist will hit Kaido, with him trying to block it or kot. That's....literally it lol. It isn't that complicated.

 

[Fn Lucci]

No actually lol.

Luffy has been tanking his moves just the same way. It does not matter. Kaido will probably attack Luffy. Luffy will tank the move, just as he's tanked everything else the same way. Then the Fist will hit Kaido, with him trying to block it or kot. That's....literally it lol. It isn't that complicated.

It is complicated, because the whole thing also depends on Momo doing his part.

What you say sounds like Luffy will take this hit and Kaido won't be able to take a hit in return. That's not how Kaido's been written and it's especially weird if Luffy recovers quick enough to hit a guy who just hit him really hard before he recovers.

I mean you could compare it to the finish of Arlong except the size of the fist makes it like he'd nail himself too, lol

 

[Wh1p]

Kaido can't lose until he shows awakening

 

[Paperchampion23]

It is complicated, because the whole thing also depends on Momo doing his part.

What you say sounds like Luffy will take this hit and Kaido won't be able to take a hit in return. That's not how Kaido's been written and it's especially weird if Luffy recovers quick enough to hit a guy who just hit him really hard before he recovers.

I mean you could compare it to the finish of Arlong except the size of the fist makes it like he'd nail himself too, lol

Momo will "do his part" lol. It's been set up for 20 chapters (since 1027) and there needs to be payoff. His little flashback this chapter was him being reminded that he needs to be a man and grow up to save his country. If he doesn't move it, Luffy will destroy Onigashima


And yes, that's exactly what im saying. Luffy will out tank (survive Kaido's next/last attack) and overpower Kaido (KO kaido with his own attack), just like he does with virtually every single villain in this series. He will be the victor of his fight, just like every other time. Kaido has been written to take a beating, not to permanently take EVERY beating. Literally this chapter:

How many times does it need to be stated that Kaido losing grip on Onigashima=His defeat? This wasn't the first, or even the second time this was mentioned.

Enough with the excuses guys. Luffy isn't going to hit himself with his own fist

 

[ArturCantSpeakJapanese]

I think you guys are getting way too deep in supposed arc themes and what that means for conclusions on fights or villains. Just look at what is in front of you on the pages that come out.

Everything you are saying is fine, it still has zero bearing on Kaido still losing from Luffys next hit. Luffy was losing against Katakuri, until he wasn't. Same with Lucci. Same with most villains tbh.

it does, though. kaido even said it in this chapter. its about haki. everything luffy is doing is just strengthening kaidos haki

 

[Finalbeta]

Oda has never been superficial when it came to ending an important fight properly so I'm hopeful this isn't it

He has probably got something cooler in store :cheers:

 

[Paperchampion23]

it does, though. kaido even said it in this chapter. its about haki. everything luffy is doing is just strengthening kaidos haki

I like how all of this is about Kaido and not Luffy. Kaido is in hybrid using his DF power to buff himself while he talks about Haki (you can literally see he transforms into his monstrous, buff hybrid form).

Meanwhile Luffy uses his power, sure, but it also outputting ridiculous amounts of haki. Why is Luffy's any worse than Kaido's right now? I'm confused. He absolutely tanked that last hit from Kaido? Why do we talk up the main villain and not the MC in the same case?

 

[ArturCantSpeakJapanese]

I like how all of this is about Kaido and not Luffy. Kaido is in hybrid using his DF power to buff himself while he talks about Haki (you can literally see he transforms into his monstrous, buff hybrid form).

Meanwhile Luffy uses his power, sure, but it also outputting ridiculous amounts of haki. Why is Luffy's any worse than Kaido's right now? I'm confused. He absolutely tanked that last hit from Kaido? Why do we talk up the main villain and not the MC in the same case?

because of that specific inversion. im not saying its worse than kaido, im saying that the traditional arc ending of "luffy wins and crushes kaidos dreams" is not possible here. he's only strengthening kaido's dreams and kaido will not stop coming back unless he's dead. this giant punch is absolutely not the last attack in the fight, and its going to either fail to knock kaido out or he'll somehow clash with it and blow onigashima away with the CoC burst or something. the rules do not apply here. a bunch of characters who arent in the fight and can't take the heat going "kaido MUST be weakening!" doesn't actually mean kaido is weakening, especially when we can just see the fight for ourselves and see how kaido is getting stronger as he goes, right alongside luffy's power ups

 

[Nikuzi]

The thing where people pretend that Kaido is fucking up Luffy is weird when in reality Luffy is just eating hits and barely even being bothered by them. Right now they are both absolutely insanely strong and their fight is just between 2 brawler types. They're both eating each others hits but I don't think Kaido is going to be able to eat a punch bigger than onigashima and be fine afterwards. This shit is going to fuck him up big time.

 

[Paperchampion23]

because of that specific inversion. im not saying its worse than kaido, im saying that the traditional arc ending of "luffy wins and crushes kaidos dreams" is not possible here. he's only strengthening kaido's dreams and kaido will not stop coming back unless he's dead. this giant punch is absolutely not the last attack in the fight, and its going to either fail to knock kaido out or he'll somehow clash with it and blow onigashima away with the CoC burst

? Kaido thinks he's Joyboy. He's not. Kaido wants to take over Wano and make it a pirate haven for the coming war. He won't. Kaido wants the ancient weapons and One Piece. He won't have them.

How is that any different from any other arc? Him enjoying the fight has nothing to do with overarching goals and dreams that will be crushed

 

[ArturCantSpeakJapanese]

? Kaido thinks he's Joyboy. He's not. Kaido wants to take over Wano and make it a pirate haven for the coming war. He won't.

How is that any different from any other arc? Him enjoying the fight has nothing to do with overarching goals and dreams that will be crushed

kaido had a flashback from 20 years ago where hes laughing to king about how he's not joyboy. come on dude. he absolutely doesnt think that he is. and as long as kaido is still alive, yes he will take over wano and turn it into new onigashima, because he's not going to just give up.

if you think he currently believes he's joyboy or is the kind of person who will just lay on his back and admit defeat i dont even know what youre reading. the whole point is that kaidos dreams were crushed a long time ago, and he's rebuilding them now. kaido hasn't been closer to finding the one piece and ushering in a "world of violence" in a long long time.

 

[Paperchampion23]

kaido had a flashback from 20 years ago where hes laughing to king about how he's not joyboy. come on dude. he absolutely doesnt think that he is. and as long as kaido is still alive, yes he will take over wano and turn it into new onigashima, because he's not going to just give up.

if you think he currently believes he's joyboy or is the kind of person who will just lay on his back and admit defeat i dont even know what youre reading

Im more confused by why any of this matters. Kaido will have no choice when he loses. He loses, that's it lol. He'll see Luffy is Joyboy, because Luffy is and he isn't.

I like how all of this is more unrealistic to you, but Zoro somehow tanking all of his damage, defeating death, coming back to steal Luffy's thunder is more realistic lol

 

[ArturCantSpeakJapanese]

Im more confused by why any of this matters. Kaido will have no choice when he loses. He loses, that's it lol. He'll see Luffy is Joyboy, because Luffy is and he isn't.

I like how all of this is more unrealistic to you, but Zoro somehow tanking all of his damage, defeating death, coming back to steal Luffy's thunder is more realistic lol

i dont really know if youre just playing this up as a bit or not now. hes not going to lose. this is not a moment where hes been set up to lose. the narrative doesnt make sense if he loses to a punch. what are you even expecting, kaido to like start crying and say I LOVE YOU LUFFY YOU SHOWED ME THE WAY! like... this isnt katakuri, he's not a noble soul being freed from his abusive family, he's kaido. he's not going to just keep laying down because he feels better losing. unless you think luffy is going to punch kaido's head clean off his shoulders and instantly kill him, this is obviously not the end.

 

[Paperchampion23]

i dont really know if youre just playing this up as a bit or not now. hes not going to lose. this is not a moment where hes been set up to lose. the narrative doesnt make sense if he loses to a punch. what are you even expecting, kaido to like start crying and say I LOVE YOU LUFFY YOU SHOWED ME THE WAY? like... this isnt katakuri, he's not a noble soul being freed from his abusive family, he's kaido. he's not going to just keep laying down because he feels better losing. unless you think luffy is going to punch kaido's head clean off his shoulders and instantly kill him, this is obviously not the end.

I'm so confused, are villains not allowed to be KOed anymore? When did that stop being a thing? What happens after literally does not matter. Luffy is winning this fight lmfao

Oda can come up with any number of excuses for Kaido to not he a threat that doesn't involve death. Like what do you think is happening to Big Mom? She is also someone who doesn't accept defeat. Is she also dying?

 

[ArturCantSpeakJapanese]

I'm so confused, are villains not allowed to be KOed anymore? When did that stop being a thing? What happens after literally does not matter. Luffy is winning this fight lmfao

...not since this arc had people go out of their way to say that kaido isn't going to be beaten unless his head is cut off, that he'll just keep coming back no matter what, when kaido himself even addressed it since luffy is the same way and he doesn't "lose" unless he's dead, because he can always keep coming back to inspire his followers.

you think random samurai going "if onigashima is falling kaido must be about to lose!" is fact but also think kaido essentially looking right at the reader and saying "this isnt over until im dead" is just random nonsense to ignore because it doesn't fit the agenda.