Current Events Chopper vs Queen!?

[imacub]

Oh I missed that comment, but you made a mistake there. Its not about the timing when the Databook was released. The statement says "As Zoro is the strongest after the captain, he usually takes out the second strongest of an enemies group." Something that ONLY happened in Dressrosa post TS and not a single time after. Oda literally explained that due to Luffy > Zoro, it was Luffy who fought Doffy and Zoro who fought Pica and not the other way around.

"usually" doesnt translate to "always"
So refuting it because zoro only fought the second strongest at DR is wrong

And nowhere does it state it was about Dressrosa, so by default it talked about Pre Wano zoro

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

So everyone who doesent go along with your ridiculous high scaling of Zoro is a "Zoro hater" lmao? And btw, I never said I'm a Zoro Fanboy (if I did it was just a typo). I'm a Zoro Fan, not a Fanboy. He is my 2nd favorite Straw Hat after Jinbei and I love him, but he aint amongst my Top 10 fav in the verse or so.

Anyways y'all get too much bias and preferences invlolved. Cannot even be called "scaling", that would be an insult to that word.

Its not ridiculous when we are constantly being proven right.

 

[Admiral Mou Bu]

So let me get this straight Zoro went from fighting below commander level person to hurting Kaido and BM telling him that he underestimated him. Lol You think they would tell Kaido to dodge or say you underestimated Sasaki lmfao

I already told y'all... Every single Supernova and Scabbard got massive hype Feats against Kaido! That means nothing if we get back to the roof and the Supernova are dropped like the Scabbards.

Just wait and be patient. Scaling off some hype Feats is so inconsistent. I showed you the most logical and factual way of scaling Zoro - so far. Else you can put Killer at Yonko level as well as he sliced Kaido open like a fish filet...

 

[ZoroSlaysDragonTuna]

So everyone who doesent go along with your ridiculous high scaling of Zoro is a "Zoro hater" lmao? And btw, I never said I'm a Zoro Fanboy (if I did it was just a typo). I'm a Zoro Fan, not a Fanboy. He is my 2nd favorite Straw Hat after Jinbei and I love him, but he aint amongst my Top 10 fav in the verse or so.

Anyways y'all get too much bias and preferences invlolved. Cannot even be called "scaling", that would be an insult to that word.

no one said you are a Zoro fan boi. I said you are one of those " I am also a Zoro fan boi" type of person. which doesnt mean you said "i am a zoro fan boi" ( not that its that big a of a difference) but it means that you are the type of person that implies you are a zoro fan in some way when you start losing an argument.

 

[Admiral Mou Bu]

"usually" doesnt translate to "always"
So refuting it because zoro only fought the second strongest at DR is wrong

And nowhere does it state it was about Dressrosa, so by default it talked about Pre Wano zoro

Has nothing to do with Wano as the pattern does not fit to Wano. It only fits to Fishman Island and Dressrosa. Or so many Arcs pre TS. But you cannot tell me that Oda did not mean the Post TS at all... He did, and so its Luffy > Zoro in Fishman Island or Dressrosa, or both.

Ffs stop denying facts.

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

I already told y'all... Every single Supernova and Scabbard got massive hype Feats against Kaido! That means nothing if we get back to the roof and the Supernova are dropped like the Scabbards.

Just wait and be patient. Scaling off some hype Feats is so inconsistent. I showed you the most logical and factual way of scaling Zoro - so far. Else you can put Killer at Yonko level as well as he sliced Kaido open like a fish filet...

No it means the sccabards and supernova are strong. I never said Zoro was youkou level. Lol He luffy level

 

[nik87]

No it means the sccabards and supernova are strong. I never said Zoro was youkou level. Lol He luffy level

That's an insult for Zoro.

 

[ZoroSlaysDragonTuna]

No it means the sccabards and supernova are strong. I never said Zoro was youkou level. Lol He luffy level

I dont even understand the lengths some people go to satisfy their head canon's. Franky usopp jinbei nami brook and robin are all about to beat The flying six but Zoro cant defeat Jack. Which literally means that Zoro is on the level of the Toppo six and the other straw hats.

Zoro has been portrayed as one of the strongest in the series not just in the straw hats, But apparently he wont be able to defeat king and queen not even jack.

Hmmmm Let me see does that make sense.
Franky will beat sasaki Zoro cant defeat jack so hes flying six level therfor Franky is about as strong as Zoro.
Zoro will fight Whos Who.

WHOS WHO?

Zoro literally just cut kaido is carrying luffy on the roof top but apparently he cant beat jack.

Maybe jack is stronger than Kaido then.

 

[Admiral Mou Bu]

I dont know whats wrong with you guys, but you are so biased that you cant even power scale with basic logic.

Let me help you real quick:

Dressrosa Luffy > Dressrosa Zoro (Fact, Databook Vivre Card)

Doffy, Cracker > Dressrosa Luffy

Queen > Doffy, Cracker

So: Queen > Doffy, Cracker > Dressrosa Luffy > Dressrosa Zoro

Since Dressrosa: Luffy improved like hell, fought multiple Commander lvl characters to the death. Zoro in the same time did what? Sleepin and chillin. Zoro did NOT improve even the slightest since Dressrosa, he only has Enma - but lost Shisui, the permanent black blade of the sword god Ryuma, instead. So its highly likely that before Zoro doesent fully master Enma, its not an upgrade.

So: Wano Luffy > Queen > Doffy, Cracker > Dressrosa Luffy > Dressrosa Zoro = Wano Zoro (so far)

Ofc match up matters - but
1) Zoro has not any particular matchup advantage over Queen
and 2) the difference in power is just TOO big for match up to be significantly important.

Zoro is relative in power to Law, and Law got his ass handed over by Doffy with LOW diff multiple times. Queen is even superior to Doffy - for sure Zoro wouldnt be able to give Queen anything more than a mid diff fight. And y'all have to keep in mind that we havent seen Queen even CLOSE his all out mode. He yet has to show his hybrid and fight seriously, stop judgng him too early.

(I already know all the Zorotards who cant accept logic will like your comments and mine will be hated, but I dont care - it always was difficult to talk logic against such a mass of retards. I love Zoro, but I'm beeing realistic other than the majority of the Straw Hat/Zoro fanboys...)

The only thing that's headcanon is what YOU do, to base Queen on what we saw so far from him. He wasnt even close going all out or even serious yet. Its like saying Zoro > Dragon cause Zoro has shown better attacking, defending and speed Feats, tf. Zoro didnt went all out either yet, you mentioned Ashura for example, thats why its also fully headcanon and inaccurate to sclae Zoro based on Feats.

PORTRAYAL is a thing, learn that. Queen, a monster with a bounty of 1.3 Billion, the 2nd Commander of Kaido, is without a doubt portrayed to be stronger than the likes of Doffy, Jack and Cracker. Scaling on Feats is the most inconsistent and headcanon way to scale.

Databook VIVRE CARD confirmed that Luffy > Zoro at Dressrosa - as we havent seen Zoro going all out in a fight yet, we cant properly scale him on anything else but this clear statement of Oda. Luffy was easily inferioir to the likes of Doffy/Jack/Cracker - and Zoro was even more inferioir to that based on that fact. Did he improve? NO, how should he? Improving while sleepin and chillin? The only difference between Dressrosa Zoro and current Zoro is Enma, which is nothing more than a sword. And he lost Shisui, the permanent black blade of the Samurai God Ryuma instead - so its highly likely that Enma itself is so far not really an upgrade yet. Means with basic logic Zoro right now is inferior to Dressrosa Luffy (Gear 4 would beat his ass imo) who is inferior to Doffy/Cracker/Jack who are inferior to Queen. In addition to that its not like Zoro has even some sort of special match up advantage over Queen to make up for that huge gap in power.

Where I rank Zoro among the alliance? Well, based on Facts and Logic, how I explained pretty often already, we can only say that Zoro is clearly stronger than Pica, but also clearly weaker than Jack. So he has to be somewhere in between. I think scaling him relative in power to Law is most accurate - but he could be a bit stronger or weaker than that.

I'm done discussing with a bunch of Zorotards who cant get their bias aside. All your claims of "youre losing" or "we debunked you" type of bs are nothing but empty words. I proved and showed you the most consistent way on how to scale current Zoro (tagged above). Not gonna waste my time no more, I'll leave as long as my brain cells are still intact - too late for you guys, sorry.

I warn you again: Dont get your expectations on the Straw Hats too high or y'all get disappoined heavily. Mark my words.

 

[imacub]

Has nothing to do with Wano as the pattern does not fit to Wano. It only fits to Fishman Island and Dressrosa. Or so many Arcs pre TS. But you cannot tell me that Oda did not mean the Post TS at all... He did, and so its Luffy > Zoro in Fishman Island or Dressrosa, or both.

Ffs stop denying facts.

i dont deny facts, im referring to the databook

1. The same databook also mentions zoro being a powerful outsider in Wano. It means, the databook is talking about Wano Zoro
2. The databook was released during Wano, so again by default it is talking about wano zoro
3. Of course zoro didnt fight the second strongest in WCI, because zoro wasnt there, i see nothing wrong with here. And again, if you're talking about pattern, you're implying it is "always" to be that case, which clearly isnt, "usually" doesnt translate to "always"
4. Nowhere were doffy and pica mentioned in the databook

Post automatically merged: Mar 16, 2021

I'm done discussing with a bunch of Zorotards who cant get their bias aside. All your claims of "youre losing" or "we debunked you" type of bs are nothing but empty words. I proved and showed you the most consistent way on how to scale current Zoro (tagged above). Not gonna waste my time no more, I'll leave as long as my brain cells are still intact - too late for you guys, sorry.

I warn you again: Dont get your expectations on the Straw Hats too high or y'all get disappoined heavily. Mark my words.

sorry but i found some inconsistencies in that arguments, i refuted it hours ago and you have yet to response it

 

[ZoroSlaysDragonTuna]

I'm done discussing with a bunch of Zorotards who cant get their bias aside. All your claims of "youre losing" or "we debunked you" type of bs are nothing but empty words. I proved and showed you the most consistent way on how to scale current Zoro (tagged above). Not gonna waste my time no more, I'll leave as long as my brain cells are still intact - too late for you guys, sorry.

I warn you again: Dont get your expectations on the Straw Hats too high or y'all get disappoined heavily. Mark my words.

And here comes the "ZoroTards" Once you lose an argument

What a fking classic "zoroTard" is TBF cant argue against that

But you are zoro fan but called zoro fans zorotards

Doesnt that make you a zoro tard aswell.

:cantseeme::cantseeme::cantseeme:

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

I'm done discussing with a bunch of Zorotards who cant get their bias aside. All your claims of "youre losing" or "we debunked you" type of bs are nothing but empty words. I proved and showed you the most consistent way on how to scale current Zoro (tagged above). Not gonna waste my time no more, I'll leave as long as my brain cells are still intact - too late for you guys, sorry.

I warn you again: Dont get your expectations on the Straw Hats too high or y'all get disappoined heavily. Mark my words.

So why did mid trio fighting Sasaki lmao. Seems like you consistent Powerscaling is nonsense. So were Zorotards because we don't agree with your nonesense

 

[Finalbeta]

You put zoro and sanji on the same tier, And you say zoro fans cant stay real.

Hypocrisy

It's quite sad that Z vs S is occurring even in this thread.

Zoro doesn't necessarily have to be sticked onto Sanji every single damn time a potential Sanji fight is discussed.

 

[ZoroSlaysDragonTuna]

It's quite sad that Z vs S is occurring even in this thread.

Zoro doesn't necessarily have to be sticked onto Sanji every single damn time a potential Sanji fight is discussed.

I told you man, Everyone just brings up Zoro everywhere because they want to associate their favorite character to him.

Literally thats where all the Zoro downplay originates from. Just fans of other characters that see how strong Zoro is and try to put their character at the same level.

 

[Lukegranders]

I thought you said kaido just stood there when zoro attack, aren't you being inconsistent in here

?

I don’t know what your talkin about. I’m saying people don’t stand there and tank attacks so using that logic that Zoros opponents can’t take flying dragon blaze is stupid especially since he needed laws help

Yea @Lukegranders favorite line after trying to downplay Zoro

:zorothink:

 

[Finalbeta]

I told you man, Everyone just brings up Zoro everywhere because they want to associate their favorite character to him.

Literally thats where all the Zoro downplay originates from. Just fans of other characters that see how strong Zoro is and try to put their character at the same level.

Downplaying Zoro implies being in the wrong, no matter the layer.

This is the omniversal rule my bud.

 

[wereng99]

?

I don’t know what your talkin about. I’m saying people don’t stand there and tank attacks so using that logic that Zoros opponents can’t take flying dragon blaze is stupid especially since he needed laws help

Well you said kaido is just sit there without dodging, and in this thread you said people dont just sit and tanking attack, is this not inconsistey? And with your logic kaido did really dodge zoro's attack..

And who cares getting little help from law to wrap if it's convenient? It's not like it boost zoro attack, besides if zoro didn't get law's help Luffy would be fucked up by boro breath 2 times lol..

I know it's sad that your boi didn't get choosen to lead the new era or too weak to some, but bitching about little things when zoro doing good is too sad..

 

[Luffy bin Dragon]

Dont get your expectations on the Straw Hats too high or y'all get disappoined heavily. Mark my words.

 

[Cinera]

Let's leave aside powerscaling for a moment and talk about the narrative.

A confrontation between Chopper and Queen has been built up for quite a while:

• In Udon Chopper neutralised Queen's Mummification virus and helped Luffy win over the Udon prisoners
• On the Live Floor, Zoro retrieved the antidote to Chopper and trusted him to handle the situation there
  • This includes the confrontation with Queen.
  • The Vice-Captain of the Strawhats trusted in Chopper to prevail
• After Chopper received the antidote from Zoro, Queen tried to kill Chopper but was thwarted by Zoro
• Chopper then proceeds to neutralise Queen's Magnum Opus (the Ice Oni virus)
• Chopper wins over Queen's subordinates
• Chopper then proceeds to bitchslap Queen

Whether Chopper defeats Queen or not, Queen is Chopper's main opponent in this arc. Their conflict may be resolved without any combat — Chopper triumphs with his medicine besting Queen's plague — but Queen has already tried to kill Chopper (and Chopper did bitchslap Queen), so I doubt this. Perhaps Chopper receives assistance to subdue Queen (Queen also has quite the formidable grudge against X-Drake), but the idea that Oda will jettison all the buildup for a confrontation between Chopper and Queen, so Chopper can then fuck off to fight Perospero or a Number is the height of delusion. It has no basis in the actual narrative present in the manga and is merely a contortion to satisfy some headcanon powerscaling.


Chapter 1007 was named "Tanuki san". It was Chopper's eponymous chapter. All the other Strawhat chapters have begun their final confrontation against their arc opponent:

• 1000: the beginning of Luffy's confrontation with Kaido
  • Luffy smacks Kaido down with a Red Roc
• 1005: the beginning of Robin's confrontation with Black Maria
  • Robin bitchslaps Black Maria
• 1007: the beginning of Chopper's confrontation with Queen
  • Chopper bitchslaps Queen

The claim that the confrontation highlighted and focused on in Chopper's dedicated chapter is all a ruse seems outlandish. All the other examples of Strawhat eponymous chapters we've seen have been pretty consistent in the pattern they follow. The Strawhat began their final confrontation with the arc antagonist and landed a solid hit on them.

This pattern is likely to be discarded in the future (some of the Strawhats already seem to have begun their final confrontations with their arc opponents), but it would still be pretty surprising if the confrontation highlighted in an eponymous chapter wasn't against the main opponent for the Strawhat in focus. If Oda did not intend for Chopper to be Queen's main opponent, I just can't imagine that he would have maid the highlight of Chopper's chapter Chopper bitchslapping Queen. From a narrative standpoint, it's absurd.

Queen has been set up as an opponent for Chopper (and/or Drake) much more than he has been set up as an opponent for Sanji. Hell, Zoro and Queen have a bigger grudge in the manga than Sanji and Queen do. To ignore what is actually happening in the narrative to force a traditional matchup seems incredibly foolish to me. According to traditional matchups, Zoro wouldn't be fighting Kaido, so they have a pretty poor track record.

I have very little regard for powerscaling arguments to determine a character's matchup. If you claim that Queen is not Chopper's arc opponent, then present an argument from the narrative. If all you have is headcanon powerscaling ("but Chopper is too weak, he can't fight a Yonkou Commander"), then you have no credible argument.

Until further notice, Queen is Chopper's arc opponent.


@PeperLevi, @Paperchampion23.

 

[MonsterKaido]

Let's leave aside powerscaling for a moment and talk about the narrative.

A confrontation between Chopper and Queen has been built up for quite a while:

• In Udon Chopper neutralised Queen's Mummification virus and helped Luffy win over the Udon prisoners
• On the Live Floor, Zoro retrieved the antidote to Chopper and trusted him to handle the situation there
  • This includes the confrontation with Queen.
  • The Vice-Captain of the Strawhats trusted in Chopper to prevail
• After Chopper received the antidote from Zoro, Queen tried to kill Chopper but was thwarted by Zoro
• Chopper then proceeds to neutralise Queen's Magnum Opus (the Ice Oni virus)
• Chopper wins over Queen's subordinates
• Chopper then proceeds to bitchslap Queen

Whether Chopper defeats Queen or not, Queen is Chopper's main opponent in this arc. Their conflict may be resolved without any combat — Chopper triumphs with his medicine besting Queen's plague — but Queen has already tried to kill Chopper (and Chopper did bitchslap Queen), so I doubt this. Perhaps Chopper receives assistance to subdue Queen (Queen also has quite the formidable grudge against X-Drake), but the idea that Oda will jettison all the buildup for a confrontation between Chopper and Queen, so Chopper can then fuck off to fight Perospero or a Number is the height of delusion. It has no basis in the actual narrative present in the manga and is merely a contortion to satisfy some headcanon powerscaling.


Chapter 1007 was named "Tanuki san". It was Chopper's eponymous chapter. All the other Strawhat chapters have begun their final confrontation against their arc opponent:

• 1000: the beginning of Luffy's confrontation with Kaido
  • Luffy smacks Kaido down with a Red Roc
• 1005: the beginning of Robin's confrontation with Black Maria
  • Robin bitchslaps Black Maria
• 1007: the beginning of Chopper's confrontation with Queen
  • Chopper bitchslaps Queen

The claim that the confrontation highlighted and focused on in Chopper's dedicated chapter is all a ruse seems outlandish. All the other examples of Strawhat eponymous chapters we've seen have been pretty consistent in the pattern they follow. The Strawhat began their final confrontation with the arc antagonist and landed a solid hit on them.

This pattern is likely to be discarded in the future (some of the Strawhats already seem to have begun their final confrontations with their arc opponents), but it would still be pretty surprising if the confrontation highlighted in an eponymous chapter wasn't against the main opponent for the Strawhat in focus. If Oda did not intend for Chopper to be Queen's main opponent, I just can't imagine that he would have maid the highlight of Chopper's chapter Chopper bitchslapping Queen. From a narrative standpoint, it's absurd.

Queen has been set up as an opponent for Chopper (and/or Drake) much more than he has been set up as an opponent for Sanji. Hell, Zoro and Queen have a bigger grudge in the manga than Sanji and Queen do. To ignore what is actually happening in the narrative to force a traditional matchup seems incredibly foolish to me. According to traditional matchups, Zoro wouldn't be fighting Kaido, so they have a pretty poor track record.

I have very little regard for powerscaling arguments to determine a character's matchup. If you claim that Queen is not Chopper's arc opponent, then present an argument from the narrative. If all you have is headcanon powerscaling ("but Chopper is too weak, he can't fight a Yonkou Commander"), then you have no credible argument.

Until further notice, Queen is Chopper's arc opponent.


@PeperLevi, @Paperchampion23.

But only narrative alone is a tricky thing....plus power scaling does comes to play........sanji has enough reason to fight BM but he can't fight her one on one........same goes for chopper.......he can definitely be one of the characters involved in fighting queen but not a one vs one.........