[FNZ] Salem of Lies Round 09: Throne of Lies

[TheAncientCenturion]

His gameplay is very confusing. Even as townie he had played like scum and even as scum he has played like Townie.

That's why it's very important to clear him because if townie then this guy can really be handy in scum hunting....

I'm not playing like scum. My suggestion on Flowers makes sense, given the early inconsistencies + personal experience in prior games. That's just about all I've done that you could accuse me on.

 

[krogothwolf]

No, this is a mistake. If she is any kind of Fool or silly Neutral, she can't hurt us. But she can save herself and fuck us over in the process. If she is controlled in some way, she is innocent.

We should leave her be in both cases.

However it is weird that TAC is the obsession, is this some kind of forum rivalry I'm missing? He is either an important Blue Dragon or an evil mastermind......

He means Jailor should execute her I believe. Least I hope so. N3 if no viable target, jailor can deal with her.

 

[Reborn]

Because I'm more focused on her claim.

We've already confirmed that Prince is in all games, didn't we? Why would I lie about being jailed Reborn, it would just make me set up for being jailed later in the game. I'd either have to know we don't have Prince to make that ballsy move or have been jailed. Because it would get me executed / the jailer would put me on lock down.

Hmm

This jailed claim is the only thing that is stopping me from putting vote on you.

Since votes are on cinera so let's see if you are right or not about your reads.

Anyway, I am logging off. Good night.

 

[Finalbeta]

Is there a role in the game which is supposed to force Flower to behave the way she is doing? It seems that the off chance has been excluded, so this appears to be a strategy to avoid being Executed, too bad this implies she is completely inconsistent and so untrustworthy, so she should still be Executed.

reborn is asking more than enough questions this phase
only thing that changed is reborn choosing to not lynch on day 1 . I remember he was adamant about pushing a lynch day one last game cause we get info and the one before that.

That is a way for scum to play safe. No voting implies less involvement in lynching, hence scum might tend to avoid lynching in order to let other players accuse one each other about possible wrong flips whilst observing, and it has nothing to do with the fact he was rather absent in fact.

 

[Flower]

Anyway...unvote. Vote lynch Cinera.

 

[Natalija]

Anyway...unvote. Vote lynch Cinera.

 

[Finalbeta]

Look at this

He said Cinera pointed out Slip from DA and then proceeds to vote for Cinera to be lynched after saying DA is scum
That makes no sense and it is a scum vote , not even a sheep vote.

This doesn't imply NW is lying at all.

The Unseen slip NW mentions doesn't imply NW is not the Paladin, it can indicate that NW was attempting to figure whether or not DA was a townie or a scum. And he even explained it in a post earlier today:

Scum will tend to misled townie. By DA keep mentioning there is Unseen in this game when in fact there is Cult, I thought he would misled townie into focusing on Unseen abilities.

 

[NeutralWatcher]

@Natalija I am not a serb i am croatian lol

Anyway, Dark Admiral - Cinera
I think those 2 are scum buddies
Iffy on Neutral Watcher.

I'm re reading last phase but i def see DA - Cinera - NW interactions i don't like

Post automatically merged: May 11, 2020

Look at this

He said Cinera pointed out Slip from DA and then proceeds to vote for Cinera to be lynched after saying DA is scum
That makes no sense and it is a scum vote , not even a sheep vote.

Post automatically merged: May 11, 2020

NW - DA - Lanji
2/3 is scum there

Nothing is wrong with that. if I saw post that can indicate or prove inconsistency of any player here I would vote that player.

 

[Kiwipom]

I'm kind of busy right now, I was hoping that I would have time to look over the day phase but I can't do long replies.


I don't think TAC is the right lynch right now. Can't comment much on Cinera, he is leaning town for me too. Actually, if someone wanna summarize the key points on why we're voting TAC or Cinera, I would really appreciate it.

And I think we should just stop taking what Flower is saying too seriously, imo it's just bullshit. Don't get lured in by what she says too much. Focus on the inconsistencies. To me, it just looks like someone that got found out and is now trying to talk herself out

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

Are we going to put aside each of sus this way? Flower, now Tac?

Me voting Tac started these many reactions, so i am inclined to believe maybe that was the right step.
Anyway, beside Cinera push on Tac before. I don't really find him scummy. So I don't also have any other candidate to lynch.

As for why i was voting Tac, it would clead Cinera, give us info on Flower n Natalija. Him being jailored also could be why there was no killing N1. And his reactions are always unusual, during this Day phase. More like prepared answers.

Post automatically merged: May 11, 2020

There was no mention by her until few post later about her using ability during day and not

So if Flower is speaking truth, Tac role claimed due to her ability, which would suggest his role claimed truth?

Bt can't believe Flower after so many flips from her.

Post automatically merged: May 11, 2020

@Dark Admiral tell me your reads on Cinera n Tac?

Post automatically merged: May 11, 2020

I am Sleeping, My Vote stays on Tac.

 

[Natalija]

I'm kind of busy right now, I was hoping that I would have time to look over the day phase but I can't do long replies.


I don't think TAC is the right lynch right now. Can't comment much on Cinera, he is leaning town for me too. Actually, if someone wanna summarize the key points on why we're voting TAC or Cinera, I would really appreciate it.

And I think we should just stop taking what Flower is saying too seriously, imo it's just bullshit. Don't get lured in by what she says too much. Focus on the inconsistencies. To me, it just looks like someone that got found out and is now trying to talk herself out

I can't speak for others, but mainly I suspect Cinera because of weird reasoning. I might be wrong because that is how we made a mistake the first day as well :') TAC is being attacked from all sides, and I find it weird because everything he said made sense to me. Although I am afraid one of these persons might be Prince, but can't say why he's insisting on TAC.

Agreed about Flower.

Are we going to put aside each of sus this way? Flower, now Tac?

Me voting Tac started these many reactions, so i am inclined to believe maybe that was the right step.
Anyway, beside Cinera push on Tac before. I don't really find him scummy. So I don't also have any other candidate to lynch.

So if Flower is speaking truth, Tac role claimed due to her ability, which would suggest his role claimed truth?

.......... Come on now. Everyone can see Flower is lying at this point. It's not putting her aside, it's realising her role. You still even questioning this is a very strange thing to do.

 

[NeutralWatcher]

Why did you read me as good before I had made any posts?

There are probably others you read as good that haven't made any posts either. This is very weird to me. Town would have no information to evaluate the alignment of inactive players, and if they have a read at all, it should be neutral or Scummy (Scum sometimes do hide among inactives (though my activity is not alignment indicative)). The only time one can read inactive players as Town is either:

• By elimination through identifying the Scum roles (assuming the # of Scum are known (e.g. in an open setup game)).
• By Night Action results.

Scum on the other hand would be able to better identify inactive players that are likely to be Town (by the same process of elimination as they know some who are Scum).

It's Day 1, there have been no Night Action, and the game started less than 2 hours ago. This is pretty suspect AL.

I have read as far as TAC's post quoting me. I'll take a break after this reply, then read the remaining posts later. Playing Mafia well requires substantial exertion of effort/willpower on my part.



What does this mean (in the context in which you used it)?



Who are you referring to? @Kiwipom? What are you apologising for? This post confused me.



Mostly going over the thread with a fine toothed comb and building my reads so far. I think making detailed notes in this game would be especially important as it would help me identify inconsistencies/deviations in playstyle across days (this may be indicative of a change in alignment) should they occur.



Reborn has been nitpicky, but the defense he made for his actions was very strong and I liked it. Fishing for reactions is also how he Scumhunts, so apriori this isn't very surprising for Town Reborn. I do recommend reading the critiques @Kiwipom and @Finalbeta made against him, and his response for yourself:





I think I understand what @AL sama is doing/coming from, so I like that as well. AL has been (near singlehandedly) driving the conversation/discussion this day phase, and what he has one in his position as de facto Town leader has been pretty good. I can see how it would hypothetically bear fruit in Scum hunting. Nevertheless, AL's a very experienced player so I'm still cautious of him. I will observe his future actions and see how it compares to what I would expect a competent Town player in his position to do.



I am not sure I am convinced by your defense. I think @Flower did make a good case against @Dark Admiral. I isolated his posts in this thread, and he did seem to be assuming that we have Unseen in the game. Look at this post by @Natalija:

She mentions that we need to know which Scum faction is in the game.

Dark Admiral responds by pointing out the Unseen faction:


So I think I disagree with your claim that he hasn't been focusing on the Unseen.

An alternative to Dark Admiral being Scum would be that he is a Town or Third Party player that has been otherwise informed of the existence of the Unseen faction (for example if he is a sheriff). Whichever the case it is, Dark Admiral has been acting like he knows we have Unseen in the game. If it turns out we do have Unseen in the game, we should be more suspicious of him.

I think the main caveat to the above would be this post where it seems he assumed that only the Unseen are there from the OP:


The OP also mentioned Cult, so I'm not sure why someone would interpret it that way, but I guess bad readings of the opening post do happen (the Tokyo Ghoul game comes to mind).


Something I wanted to confirm, are you saying we can have at most 3 investigative roles here:

Isn't the setup/alignment of all players disclosed at the end of the game?

I actually looked at Cinera yesterday and he didn't sus TAC.Then today he voted TAC without reason out of the blue.

Although he explained why he unvoted TAC, he hasn't explained why he voted TAC immediately at the start of this DP.

Vote Lynch Cinera

 

[Kiwipom]

Unvote

Vote Lynch Cinera

honestly, I’d rather look into Krogothwolf or Reborn. Maybe Lanji too. But in TAC vs Cinera, I think I am more willing to trust TAC who claimed

Post automatically merged: May 11, 2020

Although I am afraid one of these persons might be Prince, but can't say why he's insisting on TAC.

Interesting point. It did cross my mind.

What makes you say that?

 

[Natalija]

honestly, I’d rather look into Krogothwolf or Reborn. Maybe Lanji too.

Yes. Me too at this point, but the ball is rolling.

 

[Dragomir]

Day 2 Vote Tally: EoD Mark​

Voters:
Cinera -> TheAncientCenturion -> Flower -> TheAncientCenturion
Lanji -> Flower ->*
Natalija -> Flower -> Cinera
Kiwipom -> Flower -> Krogothwolf
NeutralWatcher -> Flower -> Cinera
Flower -> TheAncientCenturion -> Cinera
TheAncientCenturion -> Cinera
Yotanwa -> Flower -> TheAncientCenturion
Finalbeta -> Flower -> Cinera
Seraphoenix -> Flower -> TheAncientCenturion
Dark Admiral -> Seraphoenix
Reborn -> TheAncientCenturion ->*
Krogothwolf -> Cinera

Cinera - 6
TAC - 3
Krogothwolf - 1
Seraphoenix - 1

Non-voters: Chrono, Inflamed Haki, Fiji, Hawks, Zoro D Goat, and Queen.

Votes are now locked. ​

 

[Kiwipom]

Fuck. I was just about to switch vote.

Post automatically merged: May 11, 2020

Well. I guess Cinera it is

 

[Dragomir]

@Cinera has been put on trial! Phase 1 commences. Please do not vote guilty or innocent yet. Only talk about Cinera.​

Spoiler

1. @LANJI CUCKSMOKE
2. @Queen
3. @krogothwolf
4. @Seraphoenix
5. @Flower
6. @Finalbeta
7. @Reborn
8. @Dark Admiral
9. @Cinera
10. @Kiwipom
11. @Yo Tan Wa
12. @TheAncientCenturion
13. @Hawks
15. @Fiji
16. @Chrono
17. @Inflamed Haki
18. @Natalija
19. @Zoro D Goat
20. @NeutralWatcher

 

[NeutralWatcher]

Did Cinera talk about sus TAC on day 1? I saw his posts yesterday and nothing about him sus TAC.

 

[Natalija]

Interesting point. It did cross my mind.

What makes you say that?

Sorry, didn't see this since it merged. Well, three people are so convinced of TAC without any solid reasoning. One of them might be the Prince and is frustrated since he can't say. Cinera is as good a candidate as any. I don't you, you guys are the veterans.

 

[Kiwipom]

Sorry, didn't see this since it merged. Well, three people are so convinced of TAC without any solid reasoning. One of them might be the Prince and is frustrated since he can't say. Cinera is as good a candidate as any. I don't you, you guys are the veterans.

I'll comment on this later. I think it's best to let Cinera claim first.