Speculations Akainu The Last Hope
- Thread starter Blazing Lion
- Start date
Akainu will be a beast regardless of what goes down. Luffy or Dragon (or Sabo), whoever he faces, he'll give them the fight of their lives. His devil fruit power is as lethal as it gets, he melts off limbs or leaves people in critical condition pretty much any time he faces someone seriously 1v1. He managed to damage Whitebeard to a ridiculous extent and took powerful blows and still managed to be relevant later in the war. Oda will do him justice. I would enjoy a Dragon v Akainu but I'm a supporter of Luffy vs Akainu as pay-baxk for mentally and physically scarring and taking away his brother.
In my opinion, the Admirals haven't been too bad but due to us being in the final saga, there are now clashes between factions aside from the Straw Hats so someone winds up looking less than perfect cause not every top-tier is the same in strength or hype. Aramaki's firmly below Kaido and Shanks in my opinion but he's still a top-tier and will likely have many more showings in the future. His regeneration, hax vines and logia are already fitting for his level, he just got the short end of the stick when Shanks showed up.
Aokiji got overwhelmed a few times by Garp but that's literally the strongest Marine in history in old age, no shame. After Aokiji's 10 day, climate-altering showing, getting schooled in a few exchanges doesn't erase all of that, especially when his head wasn't completely in it (doesn't erase getting blitzed though). Fujitora sandbags quite a lot but his will is untouched so I expect a lot from him.
Kizaru has a great ability and would pose a problem for any top-tier due to his speed but not being as durable as Kaido or Big Mom is expected. He makes up for it with his logia, light-speed and clones. But yeah, I kinda view Luffy as coming off better in their exchange but Kizaru did wear out G5 so the fight has yet to truly end. Hopefully Oda gives us a round 2 but maybe he'll just move on to Luffy vs Kizaru.
Overall, the Admirals are fine. They're still top-tiers and Akaiju will definitely show off. Even when he gets bested in an exhnage, the other opponent leaves it missing half a head, I'm not worried about him. I just hope Fuji gets a chance to show off cause he's always in difficult situations due to following his own agenda. Gravity and meteor-pulling is pretty amazing.
In my opinion, the Admirals haven't been too bad but due to us being in the final saga, there are now clashes between factions aside from the Straw Hats so someone winds up looking less than perfect cause not every top-tier is the same in strength or hype. Aramaki's firmly below Kaido and Shanks in my opinion but he's still a top-tier and will likely have many more showings in the future. His regeneration, hax vines and logia are already fitting for his level, he just got the short end of the stick when Shanks showed up.
Aokiji got overwhelmed a few times by Garp but that's literally the strongest Marine in history in old age, no shame. After Aokiji's 10 day, climate-altering showing, getting schooled in a few exchanges doesn't erase all of that, especially when his head wasn't completely in it (doesn't erase getting blitzed though). Fujitora sandbags quite a lot but his will is untouched so I expect a lot from him.
Kizaru has a great ability and would pose a problem for any top-tier due to his speed but not being as durable as Kaido or Big Mom is expected. He makes up for it with his logia, light-speed and clones. But yeah, I kinda view Luffy as coming off better in their exchange but Kizaru did wear out G5 so the fight has yet to truly end. Hopefully Oda gives us a round 2 but maybe he'll just move on to Luffy vs Kizaru.
Overall, the Admirals are fine. They're still top-tiers and Akaiju will definitely show off. Even when he gets bested in an exhnage, the other opponent leaves it missing half a head, I'm not worried about him. I just hope Fuji gets a chance to show off cause he's always in difficult situations due to following his own agenda. Gravity and meteor-pulling is pretty amazing.
Too bad Curiel wasn’t hit directly then, but poor old Ace was and it was goodbye cruel world!
Even Kid & Page One will show their faces again, and Kizaru will be up in a moment…but Ace is buried and gone
Even Kid & Page One will show their faces again, and Kizaru will be up in a moment…but Ace is buried and gone
Lizaru will be paralyzed for 1 hour while saturn fights luffy
Kaido one shots luffy multiple times. Kinnemon > Luffy by your logic
Lizaru will be paralyzed for 1 hour while saturn fights luffy
Lizaru will be paralyzed for 1 hour while saturn fights luffy
When did a couple of minutes become an hour? And ain’t Luffy in worse shape than Kizaru? Don’t look like poor old adv CoC could help with that
What on earth is a “lizaru” anyway?
1. My point was not that a single Yonko empire can defeat the Navy as a whole. Point was that Navy cannot afford do deploy forces necessary to destroy any single Yonko Empire, because that requires deploying at least two Admirals.
Yonko doesn't need to be able to match all the Admirals, or even two of them. They just have to be stronger than any individual Admiral to the point that deploying only one Admiral to hunt down a Yonko is basically inconceivable. At the same time, Navy has to be stronger enough than any individual Yonko Empire will not dare outright challenge it except in extremis even if one Admiral is deployed elsewhere.
In short: Navy as a whole is stronger than any individual Yonko empire. At the same time however, Navy would not stand a chance against all four Yonko empires at the same time.
Capisci?
Basic math here actually supports my reasoning: Emperor > Admiral >>> Yonko Commander ~= Vice Admiral.
2. Red Hair pirates are unique in that their allies are useless. Had it been Whitebeard Pirates, Kid may not have even reached the Emperor.
If you are seriously using Shanks' allied crews as an argument here, you are either trolling, lying, or haven't read the manga at all.
3. Uh, no. Yes, Marineford was a plan to entrap the pirates. But thinking that a single Admiral, even Akainu, could have wiped them out with his attack even in such a situation is dumb.
Akainu alone may have gotten rid of the fodder, but Whitebeard himself as well as stronger commanders and allies will have required mopping up in head-on engagements, even had the trap worked as planned.
4. Yes, I would.
By the time of final battle on top of Onigashima, Straw Hat Pirates alone would have been able to comfortably wipe out the Big Mom Pirates, with quite some power to spare. Literally the only one who would have presented any sort of problem will have been Katakuri (and maybe Big Mom herself, if she decided to lay off whatever drugs she was enjoying. If not, she will not have been any sort of an issue). Other Sweet Commanders were basically nonentities, and fodder is, well, fodder.
Big Mom was coasting by on her old glory, Devil Fruit and natural resillience by that point, but she was basically fodder for literally any top tier capable of using Advanced Armament and/or Advanced Conqueror's Haki to get past her natural "invulnerability".
5. Stop being a liar, this is what I wrote:
Conqueror's Haki is the reason why Yonkos are stronger than Admirals (on average), but at Marineford, Whitebeard had problems using any form of Haki. He couldn't properly use Observation Haki, and that was before he took any damage. And yes, it was clearly stated that he wasn't able to use Observation:
Against the Admirals, he relied heavily on his Devil Fruit, which indicates he had problems with Armament Haki as well. And again, we know he couldn't use Conqueror's.
6. It changes everything. You really think a non-Logia will have been able to stand up to a quake punch anywhere as well as Akainu did in same conditions?
Chances are, if Akainu had had a Paramecia or Zoan devil fruit, he will have died then and there. For a non-Logia, the only way to counter a quake punch is to block it with Haki (the way Admirals defended the execution platform), and he clearly failed at doing so when Whitebeard quaked him.
7. Yes, they did.
Still doesn't mean that Yonko = Admiral.
Get it into your head that Whitebeard was literally the only person on the pirate side with Haki even theoretically strong enough to damage the Logia Admirals. And even that theoretical may not have been true in practice, considering his health.
He was basically dying since before he even stepped foot into Marineford, and despite that he had to fight nearly alone against the Admirals.
Haki can be nullified with Haki. Do you think that Marco and Vista have haki superior to the likes of Akainu and Aokiji?
8. Are you really this dumb? You really think Doflamingo had time to call the World Government to call off Fujitora in middle of a bloody battle?
And that particular situation wasn't even the only one I had in mind:
You really thing anybody could have intervened and stopped Fujitora had he really decided to take Doflamingo's head then and there? He could, after all, just claim that Doflamingo had attacked him - because Doflamingo did.
It may have been just posturing on Doflamingo's part, but he clearly was ready to take on Fujitora. Even with Kuzan, who was no longer an Admiral, he didn't exactly act scared - although because Kuzan is stronger than Fujitora, he didn't even try to attack.
9. I consider him comparable to Shanks, yes. Doesn't mean he is comparable to any of the other Yonko (except maybe for the Big Meme). And I have already stated before that some Admirals are stronger than some Yonko, but that Yonko are stronger on average.
I have not confused myself, you just stuck your head in the loop and are repeating things without even paying any attention to what my arguments actually are.
My point never was that a Yonko empire is strictly equal to the Navy and the Warlords. Rocks' Pirates may have been, perhaps Primebeard's pirates as well, but other than that? Definitely not.
However, Yonko have to be stronger than Admirals on average, because they have basically no other advantage over the Navy. Navy has four Admiral-level fighters, and HQ Vice Admirals are roughly comparable to Yonko Commanders. And Navy will obviously have superior numbers, plus the ability to concentrate forces against individual Yonko.
10. And? Fujitora back when he fought Luffy obviously didn't want to fight and didn't fight at his full power, but to pretend that he was simply letting Luffy go is just dumb.
It was only DURING that fight that Fujitora became a "Luffy fanboy", as you put it. Because it was DURING the fight that Fujitora truly understood what Luffy was like.
Up until then however, while Fujitora was clearly conflicted because he understood that Luffy is a good person at some level, he was still ready to go through with his orders:
You accuse me of dishonesty yet you are the one literally making shit up here.
11. Stop making shit up.
I have not said a word about why Kuzan joined. That has no bearing on Blackbeard accepting him. And Blackbeard not caring for loyalties actually reinforces my point because that means he considers himself strong enough to withstand any possible betrayal by his subordinates, Kuzan included.
12. 5 year old freak of nature that nobody knew how strong she will actually become.
And nobody said Admirals aren't strong, so you can stop with the butthurt.
13. Why would Whitebeard or Shanks go to Wano? What would they gain from that?
As far as Greenbull was aware, it was Luffy + Law + Kidd who beat Kaido. He had no reason to think Luffy had won one-on-one. This is also reflected in three of them getting the same 3 billion bounty after Kaido and Big Mom had fallen.
14. As I said: Big Mom outright overpowered Marco. Kizaru never did.
Capisci?
15. Rayleigh stopped Kizaru dead in his tracks. That same Rayleigh said that he + Kuja pirates will have lost against the crewless Blackbeard.
Difference is that Kizaru isn't a coward and Blackbeard is, and Kizaru had backup (had you forgotten Sentomaru and Pacifistas? All of them were far too strong to be defeated by the pirates present there) but it is clear that Rayleigh considered Blackbeard a more dangerous opponent.
Why do I have to draw everything to you like you are in a kindergarten?
16. Unlike you, yes, I do read the manga.
And Sentomaru was clear that Rayleigh had stopped Kizaru. Kuma is the reason why Strawhats escaped from Sentomaru and the Pacifistas, but he is not the reason why they escaped from Kizaru himself.
17. What you wrote just makes no sense. You seem to be laboring under delusion that it is Four Emperors against the Navy.
It is not.
It is Emperor 1 vs Emperor 2 vs Emperor 3 vs Emperor 4 vs the Navy. If one Emperor starts becoming too strong, others will gang up on him to keep him down. In fact, we know from Roger that Pirates teaming up even with the Navy to fight against strong opponents is not impossible.
Navy NEVER has to deal with all four emperors at once.
18. Uh, what the frak are you talking about?
Usopp and Nami have very good reasons to panic at Kizaru's presence.
Look, there is no point in having discussion with you if all you are going to do is try and debunk some Imaginary Yonko Fan arguments instead of what I have actually been saying!
19. He says this:
"Leave Wano for now. We don't have the manpower to tear apart those two!"
In other words, they are not dealing with Wano for now, and the reason why is because Navy has no manpower to tear apart Kaido and Big Mom.
As for Ancient Weapons, Kaido mentioned them in the context of the Government abolishing the Schibukai and introducing new weapons of its own:
And again, the same excuse you said about needing more than one Admiral to face an Emperor even if Admiral = Emperor works here in reverse...
It doesn't matter whether it is a structured match, because we already saw that Commanders literally cannot harm an Admiral.
Marco and Vista did nothing to Akainu.
King and Queen got trashed by Ryukogyu.
In a match between an Emperor and an Admiral, Commanders are quite frankly irrelevant.
So yes, Yonko have to be stronger than Admirals, because if 1 Yonko = 1 Admiral, then two Admirals can easily kill the Yonko and then wipe out Commanders at their leisure.
And as I said, Navy has HQ Vice Admirals. It won't be just Admirals facing the Commanders.
21. You said literally "The Yonko has no obligation to wait around for them and could just lead them on a merry goose chase across the seas.". By that logic, Navy should be sending several stronger fighters after every rookie... yet when Smoker was chasing down Luffy, he was alone.
And get it in your head that Yonko are not allies. Therefore, Navy only needs to match one individual Yonko to maintain balance of power.
Emperors also need to consider possibility of Navy or another Emperor stabbing them in the back should they move.
So if Navy is strong enough to match four Emperors... and each Emperor is strong enough to match three Emperors + Navy...
Sorry, that math simply doesn't work.
Navy is stronger than any individual Empire. Maybe as strong as or stronger than two. But it being able to match all four at the same time makes no bloody sense.
22. US doesn't wipe out mafia because it can't. Ancient European empires also couldn't wipe out the pirates.
But at any case the comparison is stupid. Yonkos are not the mafia or the pirates. They are literally emperors. They don't have sanctuaries, they have territories. They rule entire kingdoms.
They are not pirates, they are rulers. But rulers who are so strong that the World Government finds it wise not to challenge them.
FFS, please go back and read the story because it is clear you have not understood even the basic worldbuilding of One Piece.
OK, you really have no clue about the manga you have supposedly read.
There are two types of Vice Admirals: normal Vice Admirals and Headquarters Vice Admirals.
Normal Vice Admirals are just a fodder.
Headquarters Vice Admirals are not. These are the guys like Tsuru and Momonga.
Bounties are based on the threat level, which largely (but not exclusively) means strength. If Akainu suddenly quit the Navy and became a pirate, you can bet he would be given a Yonko bounty, simply due to how strong he is. Blackbeard meanwhile had to build up his bounty because he 1) hid his strength originally and 2) he is still a rookie (relatively) and is thus still growing in strength. It would make no sense for his bounty to not have increased over time.
And in the end, both Cross Guild and World Government bounties are Oda's bounties. They are a storytelling device, and therefore it makes no sense for them to not be relative to each other.
And the relative strength they show do make sense within the story.
Yeah, I mistook him for Sengoku. But considering his position, personality and recent behavior, it makes no sense to assume Akainu does not have Conqueror's Haki.
Kid and Law had to work together to beat Big Meme in the end. Luffy defeated Kaido on his own. And while Kaido was definitely nerfed there due to holding Onigashima up, Luffy himself was also kinda beat up.
My point with "killing" part is that you cannot use "he killed X" or "he failed to kill X" to downplay a character. It is Oda's story, and survival depends on the plot, not the threat.
Luffy actually ran quite a lot.
Longetivity in the role matters, and it matters a lot. Fact that they had been Yonkos for a long time, and were therefore proven to be capable of defending their own territories. Luffy is a newcomer and thus has no such proof. And Luffy being Nika is not something anybody knew other than the Gorosei, so using that as an argument is completely baseless.
And remember that Navy doesn't know what happened at Onigashima. They know only that two Emperors were taken out, not how - hence why Luffy, Law and Kidd received equal bounties.
Lastly, the point is moot anyway since Saturn was there with Kizaru, and he will clearly be stronger than an Admiral. So even if one were to assume that Luffy was far stronger than Kizaru (which he isn't) that still wouldn't have been enough to stop the operation.
Uh, no.
World Government is clearly doing its best to hide the fact that Luffy was the one who beat Kaido. Hence why Luffy, Kidd and Law all received equal bounties, where in reality Luffy's bounty should have been twice of either Kid's or Law's.
And when have I said that Luffy doesn't consider Navy a threat? You are the one who seems to believe that Admirals can only ever be a threat if they are strictly equal to Yonkos. Which is just dumb as shit.
Yeah, no. Don't assign your own attributes to others. I even tried to be as polite as possible despite all your lies and bullshit, but you clearly deserve no respect.
Piss off.
Turn on your brain, will ya?
If that was the logic, no country in world's history will have ever attacked another, because other rivals could always exploit it.
Yet wars have been happening all over the world since beginning of humanity.
Your "logic" and "basic military sense" are nothing but unprecedented bullshit.
Yonko doesn't need to be able to match all the Admirals, or even two of them. They just have to be stronger than any individual Admiral to the point that deploying only one Admiral to hunt down a Yonko is basically inconceivable. At the same time, Navy has to be stronger enough than any individual Yonko Empire will not dare outright challenge it except in extremis even if one Admiral is deployed elsewhere.
In short: Navy as a whole is stronger than any individual Yonko empire. At the same time however, Navy would not stand a chance against all four Yonko empires at the same time.
Capisci?
Basic math here actually supports my reasoning: Emperor > Admiral >>> Yonko Commander ~= Vice Admiral.
2. Red Hair pirates are unique in that their allies are useless. Had it been Whitebeard Pirates, Kid may not have even reached the Emperor.
If you are seriously using Shanks' allied crews as an argument here, you are either trolling, lying, or haven't read the manga at all.
3. Uh, no. Yes, Marineford was a plan to entrap the pirates. But thinking that a single Admiral, even Akainu, could have wiped them out with his attack even in such a situation is dumb.
Akainu alone may have gotten rid of the fodder, but Whitebeard himself as well as stronger commanders and allies will have required mopping up in head-on engagements, even had the trap worked as planned.
4. Yes, I would.
By the time of final battle on top of Onigashima, Straw Hat Pirates alone would have been able to comfortably wipe out the Big Mom Pirates, with quite some power to spare. Literally the only one who would have presented any sort of problem will have been Katakuri (and maybe Big Mom herself, if she decided to lay off whatever drugs she was enjoying. If not, she will not have been any sort of an issue). Other Sweet Commanders were basically nonentities, and fodder is, well, fodder.
Big Mom was coasting by on her old glory, Devil Fruit and natural resillience by that point, but she was basically fodder for literally any top tier capable of using Advanced Armament and/or Advanced Conqueror's Haki to get past her natural "invulnerability".
5. Stop being a liar, this is what I wrote:
Conqueror's Haki is the reason why Yonkos are stronger than Admirals (on average), but at Marineford, Whitebeard had problems using any form of Haki. He couldn't properly use Observation Haki, and that was before he took any damage. And yes, it was clearly stated that he wasn't able to use Observation:
Against the Admirals, he relied heavily on his Devil Fruit, which indicates he had problems with Armament Haki as well. And again, we know he couldn't use Conqueror's.
6. It changes everything. You really think a non-Logia will have been able to stand up to a quake punch anywhere as well as Akainu did in same conditions?
Chances are, if Akainu had had a Paramecia or Zoan devil fruit, he will have died then and there. For a non-Logia, the only way to counter a quake punch is to block it with Haki (the way Admirals defended the execution platform), and he clearly failed at doing so when Whitebeard quaked him.
7. Yes, they did.
Still doesn't mean that Yonko = Admiral.
Get it into your head that Whitebeard was literally the only person on the pirate side with Haki even theoretically strong enough to damage the Logia Admirals. And even that theoretical may not have been true in practice, considering his health.
He was basically dying since before he even stepped foot into Marineford, and despite that he had to fight nearly alone against the Admirals.
Haki can be nullified with Haki. Do you think that Marco and Vista have haki superior to the likes of Akainu and Aokiji?
8. Are you really this dumb? You really think Doflamingo had time to call the World Government to call off Fujitora in middle of a bloody battle?
And that particular situation wasn't even the only one I had in mind:
You really thing anybody could have intervened and stopped Fujitora had he really decided to take Doflamingo's head then and there? He could, after all, just claim that Doflamingo had attacked him - because Doflamingo did.
It may have been just posturing on Doflamingo's part, but he clearly was ready to take on Fujitora. Even with Kuzan, who was no longer an Admiral, he didn't exactly act scared - although because Kuzan is stronger than Fujitora, he didn't even try to attack.
9. I consider him comparable to Shanks, yes. Doesn't mean he is comparable to any of the other Yonko (except maybe for the Big Meme). And I have already stated before that some Admirals are stronger than some Yonko, but that Yonko are stronger on average.
I have not confused myself, you just stuck your head in the loop and are repeating things without even paying any attention to what my arguments actually are.
My point never was that a Yonko empire is strictly equal to the Navy and the Warlords. Rocks' Pirates may have been, perhaps Primebeard's pirates as well, but other than that? Definitely not.
However, Yonko have to be stronger than Admirals on average, because they have basically no other advantage over the Navy. Navy has four Admiral-level fighters, and HQ Vice Admirals are roughly comparable to Yonko Commanders. And Navy will obviously have superior numbers, plus the ability to concentrate forces against individual Yonko.
10. And? Fujitora back when he fought Luffy obviously didn't want to fight and didn't fight at his full power, but to pretend that he was simply letting Luffy go is just dumb.
It was only DURING that fight that Fujitora became a "Luffy fanboy", as you put it. Because it was DURING the fight that Fujitora truly understood what Luffy was like.
Up until then however, while Fujitora was clearly conflicted because he understood that Luffy is a good person at some level, he was still ready to go through with his orders:
You accuse me of dishonesty yet you are the one literally making shit up here.
11. Stop making shit up.
I have not said a word about why Kuzan joined. That has no bearing on Blackbeard accepting him. And Blackbeard not caring for loyalties actually reinforces my point because that means he considers himself strong enough to withstand any possible betrayal by his subordinates, Kuzan included.
12. 5 year old freak of nature that nobody knew how strong she will actually become.
And nobody said Admirals aren't strong, so you can stop with the butthurt.
13. Why would Whitebeard or Shanks go to Wano? What would they gain from that?
As far as Greenbull was aware, it was Luffy + Law + Kidd who beat Kaido. He had no reason to think Luffy had won one-on-one. This is also reflected in three of them getting the same 3 billion bounty after Kaido and Big Mom had fallen.
14. As I said: Big Mom outright overpowered Marco. Kizaru never did.
Capisci?
15. Rayleigh stopped Kizaru dead in his tracks. That same Rayleigh said that he + Kuja pirates will have lost against the crewless Blackbeard.
Difference is that Kizaru isn't a coward and Blackbeard is, and Kizaru had backup (had you forgotten Sentomaru and Pacifistas? All of them were far too strong to be defeated by the pirates present there) but it is clear that Rayleigh considered Blackbeard a more dangerous opponent.
Why do I have to draw everything to you like you are in a kindergarten?
16. Unlike you, yes, I do read the manga.
And Sentomaru was clear that Rayleigh had stopped Kizaru. Kuma is the reason why Strawhats escaped from Sentomaru and the Pacifistas, but he is not the reason why they escaped from Kizaru himself.
17. What you wrote just makes no sense. You seem to be laboring under delusion that it is Four Emperors against the Navy.
It is not.
It is Emperor 1 vs Emperor 2 vs Emperor 3 vs Emperor 4 vs the Navy. If one Emperor starts becoming too strong, others will gang up on him to keep him down. In fact, we know from Roger that Pirates teaming up even with the Navy to fight against strong opponents is not impossible.
Navy NEVER has to deal with all four emperors at once.
18. Uh, what the frak are you talking about?
Usopp and Nami have very good reasons to panic at Kizaru's presence.
Look, there is no point in having discussion with you if all you are going to do is try and debunk some Imaginary Yonko Fan arguments instead of what I have actually been saying!
19. He says this:
"Leave Wano for now. We don't have the manpower to tear apart those two!"
In other words, they are not dealing with Wano for now, and the reason why is because Navy has no manpower to tear apart Kaido and Big Mom.
As for Ancient Weapons, Kaido mentioned them in the context of the Government abolishing the Schibukai and introducing new weapons of its own:
And again, the same excuse you said about needing more than one Admiral to face an Emperor even if Admiral = Emperor works here in reverse...
It doesn't matter whether it is a structured match, because we already saw that Commanders literally cannot harm an Admiral.
Marco and Vista did nothing to Akainu.
King and Queen got trashed by Ryukogyu.
In a match between an Emperor and an Admiral, Commanders are quite frankly irrelevant.
So yes, Yonko have to be stronger than Admirals, because if 1 Yonko = 1 Admiral, then two Admirals can easily kill the Yonko and then wipe out Commanders at their leisure.
And as I said, Navy has HQ Vice Admirals. It won't be just Admirals facing the Commanders.
21. You said literally "The Yonko has no obligation to wait around for them and could just lead them on a merry goose chase across the seas.". By that logic, Navy should be sending several stronger fighters after every rookie... yet when Smoker was chasing down Luffy, he was alone.
And get it in your head that Yonko are not allies. Therefore, Navy only needs to match one individual Yonko to maintain balance of power.
Emperors also need to consider possibility of Navy or another Emperor stabbing them in the back should they move.
So if Navy is strong enough to match four Emperors... and each Emperor is strong enough to match three Emperors + Navy...
Sorry, that math simply doesn't work.
Navy is stronger than any individual Empire. Maybe as strong as or stronger than two. But it being able to match all four at the same time makes no bloody sense.
22. US doesn't wipe out mafia because it can't. Ancient European empires also couldn't wipe out the pirates.
But at any case the comparison is stupid. Yonkos are not the mafia or the pirates. They are literally emperors. They don't have sanctuaries, they have territories. They rule entire kingdoms.
They are not pirates, they are rulers. But rulers who are so strong that the World Government finds it wise not to challenge them.
FFS, please go back and read the story because it is clear you have not understood even the basic worldbuilding of One Piece.
OK, you really have no clue about the manga you have supposedly read.
There are two types of Vice Admirals: normal Vice Admirals and Headquarters Vice Admirals.
Normal Vice Admirals are just a fodder.
Headquarters Vice Admirals are not. These are the guys like Tsuru and Momonga.
Bounties are based on the threat level, which largely (but not exclusively) means strength. If Akainu suddenly quit the Navy and became a pirate, you can bet he would be given a Yonko bounty, simply due to how strong he is. Blackbeard meanwhile had to build up his bounty because he 1) hid his strength originally and 2) he is still a rookie (relatively) and is thus still growing in strength. It would make no sense for his bounty to not have increased over time.
And in the end, both Cross Guild and World Government bounties are Oda's bounties. They are a storytelling device, and therefore it makes no sense for them to not be relative to each other.
And the relative strength they show do make sense within the story.
Yeah, I mistook him for Sengoku. But considering his position, personality and recent behavior, it makes no sense to assume Akainu does not have Conqueror's Haki.
Kid and Law had to work together to beat Big Meme in the end. Luffy defeated Kaido on his own. And while Kaido was definitely nerfed there due to holding Onigashima up, Luffy himself was also kinda beat up.
My point with "killing" part is that you cannot use "he killed X" or "he failed to kill X" to downplay a character. It is Oda's story, and survival depends on the plot, not the threat.
Luffy actually ran quite a lot.
Longetivity in the role matters, and it matters a lot. Fact that they had been Yonkos for a long time, and were therefore proven to be capable of defending their own territories. Luffy is a newcomer and thus has no such proof. And Luffy being Nika is not something anybody knew other than the Gorosei, so using that as an argument is completely baseless.
And remember that Navy doesn't know what happened at Onigashima. They know only that two Emperors were taken out, not how - hence why Luffy, Law and Kidd received equal bounties.
Lastly, the point is moot anyway since Saturn was there with Kizaru, and he will clearly be stronger than an Admiral. So even if one were to assume that Luffy was far stronger than Kizaru (which he isn't) that still wouldn't have been enough to stop the operation.
Uh, no.
World Government is clearly doing its best to hide the fact that Luffy was the one who beat Kaido. Hence why Luffy, Kidd and Law all received equal bounties, where in reality Luffy's bounty should have been twice of either Kid's or Law's.
And when have I said that Luffy doesn't consider Navy a threat? You are the one who seems to believe that Admirals can only ever be a threat if they are strictly equal to Yonkos. Which is just dumb as shit.
Yeah, no. Don't assign your own attributes to others. I even tried to be as polite as possible despite all your lies and bullshit, but you clearly deserve no respect.
Piss off.
Turn on your brain, will ya?
If that was the logic, no country in world's history will have ever attacked another, because other rivals could always exploit it.
Yet wars have been happening all over the world since beginning of humanity.
Your "logic" and "basic military sense" are nothing but unprecedented bullshit.
1. My point was not that a single Yonko empire can defeat the Navy as a whole. Point was that Navy cannot afford do deploy forces necessary to destroy any single Yonko Empire, because that requires deploying at least two Admirals.
Yonko doesn't need to be able to match all the Admirals, or even two of them. They just have to be stronger than any individual Admiral to the point that deploying only one Admiral to hunt down a Yonko is basically inconceivable. At the same time, Navy has to be stronger enough than any individual Yonko Empire will not dare outright challenge it except in extremis even if one Admiral is deployed elsewhere.
In short: Navy as a whole is stronger than any individual Yonko empire. At the same time however, Navy would not stand a chance against all four Yonko empires at the same time.
Capisci?
Basic math here actually supports my reasoning: Emperor > Admiral >>> Yonko Commander ~= Vice Admiral.
2. Red Hair pirates are unique in that their allies are useless. Had it been Whitebeard Pirates, Kid may not have even reached the Emperor.
If you are seriously using Shanks' allied crews as an argument here, you are either trolling, lying, or haven't read the manga at all.
3. Uh, no. Yes, Marineford was a plan to entrap the pirates. But thinking that a single Admiral, even Akainu, could have wiped them out with his attack even in such a situation is dumb.
Akainu alone may have gotten rid of the fodder, but Whitebeard himself as well as stronger commanders and allies will have required mopping up in head-on engagements, even had the trap worked as planned.
4. Yes, I would.
By the time of final battle on top of Onigashima, Straw Hat Pirates alone would have been able to comfortably wipe out the Big Mom Pirates, with quite some power to spare. Literally the only one who would have presented any sort of problem will have been Katakuri (and maybe Big Mom herself, if she decided to lay off whatever drugs she was enjoying. If not, she will not have been any sort of an issue). Other Sweet Commanders were basically nonentities, and fodder is, well, fodder.
Big Mom was coasting by on her old glory, Devil Fruit and natural resillience by that point, but she was basically fodder for literally any top tier capable of using Advanced Armament and/or Advanced Conqueror's Haki to get past her natural "invulnerability".
5. Stop being a liar, this is what I wrote:
Conqueror's Haki is the reason why Yonkos are stronger than Admirals (on average), but at Marineford, Whitebeard had problems using any form of Haki. He couldn't properly use Observation Haki, and that was before he took any damage. And yes, it was clearly stated that he wasn't able to use Observation:
Against the Admirals, he relied heavily on his Devil Fruit, which indicates he had problems with Armament Haki as well. And again, we know he couldn't use Conqueror's.
6. It changes everything. You really think a non-Logia will have been able to stand up to a quake punch anywhere as well as Akainu did in same conditions?
Chances are, if Akainu had had a Paramecia or Zoan devil fruit, he will have died then and there. For a non-Logia, the only way to counter a quake punch is to block it with Haki (the way Admirals defended the execution platform), and he clearly failed at doing so when Whitebeard quaked him.
7. Yes, they did.
Still doesn't mean that Yonko = Admiral.
Get it into your head that Whitebeard was literally the only person on the pirate side with Haki even theoretically strong enough to damage the Logia Admirals. And even that theoretical may not have been true in practice, considering his health.
He was basically dying since before he even stepped foot into Marineford, and despite that he had to fight nearly alone against the Admirals.
Haki can be nullified with Haki. Do you think that Marco and Vista have haki superior to the likes of Akainu and Aokiji?
8. Are you really this dumb? You really think Doflamingo had time to call the World Government to call off Fujitora in middle of a bloody battle?
And that particular situation wasn't even the only one I had in mind:
You really thing anybody could have intervened and stopped Fujitora had he really decided to take Doflamingo's head then and there? He could, after all, just claim that Doflamingo had attacked him - because Doflamingo did.
It may have been just posturing on Doflamingo's part, but he clearly was ready to take on Fujitora. Even with Kuzan, who was no longer an Admiral, he didn't exactly act scared - although because Kuzan is stronger than Fujitora, he didn't even try to attack.
9. I consider him comparable to Shanks, yes. Doesn't mean he is comparable to any of the other Yonko (except maybe for the Big Meme). And I have already stated before that some Admirals are stronger than some Yonko, but that Yonko are stronger on average.
I have not confused myself, you just stuck your head in the loop and are repeating things without even paying any attention to what my arguments actually are.
My point never was that a Yonko empire is strictly equal to the Navy and the Warlords. Rocks' Pirates may have been, perhaps Primebeard's pirates as well, but other than that? Definitely not.
However, Yonko have to be stronger than Admirals on average, because they have basically no other advantage over the Navy. Navy has four Admiral-level fighters, and HQ Vice Admirals are roughly comparable to Yonko Commanders. And Navy will obviously have superior numbers, plus the ability to concentrate forces against individual Yonko.
10. And? Fujitora back when he fought Luffy obviously didn't want to fight and didn't fight at his full power, but to pretend that he was simply letting Luffy go is just dumb.
It was only DURING that fight that Fujitora became a "Luffy fanboy", as you put it. Because it was DURING the fight that Fujitora truly understood what Luffy was like.
Up until then however, while Fujitora was clearly conflicted because he understood that Luffy is a good person at some level, he was still ready to go through with his orders:
You accuse me of dishonesty yet you are the one literally making shit up here.
11. Stop making shit up.
I have not said a word about why Kuzan joined. That has no bearing on Blackbeard accepting him. And Blackbeard not caring for loyalties actually reinforces my point because that means he considers himself strong enough to withstand any possible betrayal by his subordinates, Kuzan included.
12. 5 year old freak of nature that nobody knew how strong she will actually become.
And nobody said Admirals aren't strong, so you can stop with the butthurt.
13. Why would Whitebeard or Shanks go to Wano? What would they gain from that?
As far as Greenbull was aware, it was Luffy + Law + Kidd who beat Kaido. He had no reason to think Luffy had won one-on-one. This is also reflected in three of them getting the same 3 billion bounty after Kaido and Big Mom had fallen.
14. As I said: Big Mom outright overpowered Marco. Kizaru never did.
Capisci?
15. Rayleigh stopped Kizaru dead in his tracks. That same Rayleigh said that he + Kuja pirates will have lost against the crewless Blackbeard.
Difference is that Kizaru isn't a coward and Blackbeard is, and Kizaru had backup (had you forgotten Sentomaru and Pacifistas? All of them were far too strong to be defeated by the pirates present there) but it is clear that Rayleigh considered Blackbeard a more dangerous opponent.
Why do I have to draw everything to you like you are in a kindergarten?
16. Unlike you, yes, I do read the manga.
And Sentomaru was clear that Rayleigh had stopped Kizaru. Kuma is the reason why Strawhats escaped from Sentomaru and the Pacifistas, but he is not the reason why they escaped from Kizaru himself.
17. What you wrote just makes no sense. You seem to be laboring under delusion that it is Four Emperors against the Navy.
It is not.
It is Emperor 1 vs Emperor 2 vs Emperor 3 vs Emperor 4 vs the Navy. If one Emperor starts becoming too strong, others will gang up on him to keep him down. In fact, we know from Roger that Pirates teaming up even with the Navy to fight against strong opponents is not impossible.
Navy NEVER has to deal with all four emperors at once.
18. Uh, what the frak are you talking about?
Usopp and Nami have very good reasons to panic at Kizaru's presence.
Look, there is no point in having discussion with you if all you are going to do is try and debunk some Imaginary Yonko Fan arguments instead of what I have actually been saying!
19. He says this:
"Leave Wano for now. We don't have the manpower to tear apart those two!"
In other words, they are not dealing with Wano for now, and the reason why is because Navy has no manpower to tear apart Kaido and Big Mom.
As for Ancient Weapons, Kaido mentioned them in the context of the Government abolishing the Schibukai and introducing new weapons of its own:
And again, the same excuse you said about needing more than one Admiral to face an Emperor even if Admiral = Emperor works here in reverse...
It doesn't matter whether it is a structured match, because we already saw that Commanders literally cannot harm an Admiral.
Marco and Vista did nothing to Akainu.
King and Queen got trashed by Ryukogyu.
In a match between an Emperor and an Admiral, Commanders are quite frankly irrelevant.
So yes, Yonko have to be stronger than Admirals, because if 1 Yonko = 1 Admiral, then two Admirals can easily kill the Yonko and then wipe out Commanders at their leisure.
And as I said, Navy has HQ Vice Admirals. It won't be just Admirals facing the Commanders.
21. You said literally "The Yonko has no obligation to wait around for them and could just lead them on a merry goose chase across the seas.". By that logic, Navy should be sending several stronger fighters after every rookie... yet when Smoker was chasing down Luffy, he was alone.
And get it in your head that Yonko are not allies. Therefore, Navy only needs to match one individual Yonko to maintain balance of power.
Emperors also need to consider possibility of Navy or another Emperor stabbing them in the back should they move.
So if Navy is strong enough to match four Emperors... and each Emperor is strong enough to match three Emperors + Navy...
Sorry, that math simply doesn't work.
Navy is stronger than any individual Empire. Maybe as strong as or stronger than two. But it being able to match all four at the same time makes no bloody sense.
22. US doesn't wipe out mafia because it can't. Ancient European empires also couldn't wipe out the pirates.
But at any case the comparison is stupid. Yonkos are not the mafia or the pirates. They are literally emperors. They don't have sanctuaries, they have territories. They rule entire kingdoms.
They are not pirates, they are rulers. But rulers who are so strong that the World Government finds it wise not to challenge them.
FFS, please go back and read the story because it is clear you have not understood even the basic worldbuilding of One Piece.
OK, you really have no clue about the manga you have supposedly read.
There are two types of Vice Admirals: normal Vice Admirals and Headquarters Vice Admirals.
Normal Vice Admirals are just a fodder.
Headquarters Vice Admirals are not. These are the guys like Tsuru and Momonga.
Bounties are based on the threat level, which largely (but not exclusively) means strength. If Akainu suddenly quit the Navy and became a pirate, you can bet he would be given a Yonko bounty, simply due to how strong he is. Blackbeard meanwhile had to build up his bounty because he 1) hid his strength originally and 2) he is still a rookie (relatively) and is thus still growing in strength. It would make no sense for his bounty to not have increased over time.
And in the end, both Cross Guild and World Government bounties are Oda's bounties. They are a storytelling device, and therefore it makes no sense for them to not be relative to each other.
And the relative strength they show do make sense within the story.
Yeah, I mistook him for Sengoku. But considering his position, personality and recent behavior, it makes no sense to assume Akainu does not have Conqueror's Haki.
Kid and Law had to work together to beat Big Meme in the end. Luffy defeated Kaido on his own. And while Kaido was definitely nerfed there due to holding Onigashima up, Luffy himself was also kinda beat up.
My point with "killing" part is that you cannot use "he killed X" or "he failed to kill X" to downplay a character. It is Oda's story, and survival depends on the plot, not the threat.
Luffy actually ran quite a lot.
Longetivity in the role matters, and it matters a lot. Fact that they had been Yonkos for a long time, and were therefore proven to be capable of defending their own territories. Luffy is a newcomer and thus has no such proof. And Luffy being Nika is not something anybody knew other than the Gorosei, so using that as an argument is completely baseless.
And remember that Navy doesn't know what happened at Onigashima. They know only that two Emperors were taken out, not how - hence why Luffy, Law and Kidd received equal bounties.
Lastly, the point is moot anyway since Saturn was there with Kizaru, and he will clearly be stronger than an Admiral. So even if one were to assume that Luffy was far stronger than Kizaru (which he isn't) that still wouldn't have been enough to stop the operation.
Uh, no.
World Government is clearly doing its best to hide the fact that Luffy was the one who beat Kaido. Hence why Luffy, Kidd and Law all received equal bounties, where in reality Luffy's bounty should have been twice of either Kid's or Law's.
And when have I said that Luffy doesn't consider Navy a threat? You are the one who seems to believe that Admirals can only ever be a threat if they are strictly equal to Yonkos. Which is just dumb as shit.
Yeah, no. Don't assign your own attributes to others. I even tried to be as polite as possible despite all your lies and bullshit, but you clearly deserve no respect.
Piss off.
Turn on your brain, will ya?
If that was the logic, no country in world's history will have ever attacked another, because other rivals could always exploit it.
Yet wars have been happening all over the world since beginning of humanity.
Your "logic" and "basic military sense" are nothing but unprecedented bullshit.
Yonko doesn't need to be able to match all the Admirals, or even two of them. They just have to be stronger than any individual Admiral to the point that deploying only one Admiral to hunt down a Yonko is basically inconceivable. At the same time, Navy has to be stronger enough than any individual Yonko Empire will not dare outright challenge it except in extremis even if one Admiral is deployed elsewhere.
In short: Navy as a whole is stronger than any individual Yonko empire. At the same time however, Navy would not stand a chance against all four Yonko empires at the same time.
Capisci?
Basic math here actually supports my reasoning: Emperor > Admiral >>> Yonko Commander ~= Vice Admiral.
2. Red Hair pirates are unique in that their allies are useless. Had it been Whitebeard Pirates, Kid may not have even reached the Emperor.
If you are seriously using Shanks' allied crews as an argument here, you are either trolling, lying, or haven't read the manga at all.
3. Uh, no. Yes, Marineford was a plan to entrap the pirates. But thinking that a single Admiral, even Akainu, could have wiped them out with his attack even in such a situation is dumb.
Akainu alone may have gotten rid of the fodder, but Whitebeard himself as well as stronger commanders and allies will have required mopping up in head-on engagements, even had the trap worked as planned.
4. Yes, I would.
By the time of final battle on top of Onigashima, Straw Hat Pirates alone would have been able to comfortably wipe out the Big Mom Pirates, with quite some power to spare. Literally the only one who would have presented any sort of problem will have been Katakuri (and maybe Big Mom herself, if she decided to lay off whatever drugs she was enjoying. If not, she will not have been any sort of an issue). Other Sweet Commanders were basically nonentities, and fodder is, well, fodder.
Big Mom was coasting by on her old glory, Devil Fruit and natural resillience by that point, but she was basically fodder for literally any top tier capable of using Advanced Armament and/or Advanced Conqueror's Haki to get past her natural "invulnerability".
5. Stop being a liar, this is what I wrote:
Conqueror's Haki is the reason why Yonkos are stronger than Admirals (on average), but at Marineford, Whitebeard had problems using any form of Haki. He couldn't properly use Observation Haki, and that was before he took any damage. And yes, it was clearly stated that he wasn't able to use Observation:
Against the Admirals, he relied heavily on his Devil Fruit, which indicates he had problems with Armament Haki as well. And again, we know he couldn't use Conqueror's.
6. It changes everything. You really think a non-Logia will have been able to stand up to a quake punch anywhere as well as Akainu did in same conditions?
Chances are, if Akainu had had a Paramecia or Zoan devil fruit, he will have died then and there. For a non-Logia, the only way to counter a quake punch is to block it with Haki (the way Admirals defended the execution platform), and he clearly failed at doing so when Whitebeard quaked him.
7. Yes, they did.
Still doesn't mean that Yonko = Admiral.
Get it into your head that Whitebeard was literally the only person on the pirate side with Haki even theoretically strong enough to damage the Logia Admirals. And even that theoretical may not have been true in practice, considering his health.
He was basically dying since before he even stepped foot into Marineford, and despite that he had to fight nearly alone against the Admirals.
Haki can be nullified with Haki. Do you think that Marco and Vista have haki superior to the likes of Akainu and Aokiji?
8. Are you really this dumb? You really think Doflamingo had time to call the World Government to call off Fujitora in middle of a bloody battle?
And that particular situation wasn't even the only one I had in mind:
You really thing anybody could have intervened and stopped Fujitora had he really decided to take Doflamingo's head then and there? He could, after all, just claim that Doflamingo had attacked him - because Doflamingo did.
It may have been just posturing on Doflamingo's part, but he clearly was ready to take on Fujitora. Even with Kuzan, who was no longer an Admiral, he didn't exactly act scared - although because Kuzan is stronger than Fujitora, he didn't even try to attack.
9. I consider him comparable to Shanks, yes. Doesn't mean he is comparable to any of the other Yonko (except maybe for the Big Meme). And I have already stated before that some Admirals are stronger than some Yonko, but that Yonko are stronger on average.
I have not confused myself, you just stuck your head in the loop and are repeating things without even paying any attention to what my arguments actually are.
My point never was that a Yonko empire is strictly equal to the Navy and the Warlords. Rocks' Pirates may have been, perhaps Primebeard's pirates as well, but other than that? Definitely not.
However, Yonko have to be stronger than Admirals on average, because they have basically no other advantage over the Navy. Navy has four Admiral-level fighters, and HQ Vice Admirals are roughly comparable to Yonko Commanders. And Navy will obviously have superior numbers, plus the ability to concentrate forces against individual Yonko.
10. And? Fujitora back when he fought Luffy obviously didn't want to fight and didn't fight at his full power, but to pretend that he was simply letting Luffy go is just dumb.
It was only DURING that fight that Fujitora became a "Luffy fanboy", as you put it. Because it was DURING the fight that Fujitora truly understood what Luffy was like.
Up until then however, while Fujitora was clearly conflicted because he understood that Luffy is a good person at some level, he was still ready to go through with his orders:
You accuse me of dishonesty yet you are the one literally making shit up here.
11. Stop making shit up.
I have not said a word about why Kuzan joined. That has no bearing on Blackbeard accepting him. And Blackbeard not caring for loyalties actually reinforces my point because that means he considers himself strong enough to withstand any possible betrayal by his subordinates, Kuzan included.
12. 5 year old freak of nature that nobody knew how strong she will actually become.
And nobody said Admirals aren't strong, so you can stop with the butthurt.
13. Why would Whitebeard or Shanks go to Wano? What would they gain from that?
As far as Greenbull was aware, it was Luffy + Law + Kidd who beat Kaido. He had no reason to think Luffy had won one-on-one. This is also reflected in three of them getting the same 3 billion bounty after Kaido and Big Mom had fallen.
14. As I said: Big Mom outright overpowered Marco. Kizaru never did.
Capisci?
15. Rayleigh stopped Kizaru dead in his tracks. That same Rayleigh said that he + Kuja pirates will have lost against the crewless Blackbeard.
Difference is that Kizaru isn't a coward and Blackbeard is, and Kizaru had backup (had you forgotten Sentomaru and Pacifistas? All of them were far too strong to be defeated by the pirates present there) but it is clear that Rayleigh considered Blackbeard a more dangerous opponent.
Why do I have to draw everything to you like you are in a kindergarten?
16. Unlike you, yes, I do read the manga.
And Sentomaru was clear that Rayleigh had stopped Kizaru. Kuma is the reason why Strawhats escaped from Sentomaru and the Pacifistas, but he is not the reason why they escaped from Kizaru himself.
17. What you wrote just makes no sense. You seem to be laboring under delusion that it is Four Emperors against the Navy.
It is not.
It is Emperor 1 vs Emperor 2 vs Emperor 3 vs Emperor 4 vs the Navy. If one Emperor starts becoming too strong, others will gang up on him to keep him down. In fact, we know from Roger that Pirates teaming up even with the Navy to fight against strong opponents is not impossible.
Navy NEVER has to deal with all four emperors at once.
18. Uh, what the frak are you talking about?
Usopp and Nami have very good reasons to panic at Kizaru's presence.
Look, there is no point in having discussion with you if all you are going to do is try and debunk some Imaginary Yonko Fan arguments instead of what I have actually been saying!
19. He says this:
"Leave Wano for now. We don't have the manpower to tear apart those two!"
In other words, they are not dealing with Wano for now, and the reason why is because Navy has no manpower to tear apart Kaido and Big Mom.
As for Ancient Weapons, Kaido mentioned them in the context of the Government abolishing the Schibukai and introducing new weapons of its own:
And again, the same excuse you said about needing more than one Admiral to face an Emperor even if Admiral = Emperor works here in reverse...
It doesn't matter whether it is a structured match, because we already saw that Commanders literally cannot harm an Admiral.
Marco and Vista did nothing to Akainu.
King and Queen got trashed by Ryukogyu.
In a match between an Emperor and an Admiral, Commanders are quite frankly irrelevant.
So yes, Yonko have to be stronger than Admirals, because if 1 Yonko = 1 Admiral, then two Admirals can easily kill the Yonko and then wipe out Commanders at their leisure.
And as I said, Navy has HQ Vice Admirals. It won't be just Admirals facing the Commanders.
21. You said literally "The Yonko has no obligation to wait around for them and could just lead them on a merry goose chase across the seas.". By that logic, Navy should be sending several stronger fighters after every rookie... yet when Smoker was chasing down Luffy, he was alone.
And get it in your head that Yonko are not allies. Therefore, Navy only needs to match one individual Yonko to maintain balance of power.
Emperors also need to consider possibility of Navy or another Emperor stabbing them in the back should they move.
So if Navy is strong enough to match four Emperors... and each Emperor is strong enough to match three Emperors + Navy...
Sorry, that math simply doesn't work.
Navy is stronger than any individual Empire. Maybe as strong as or stronger than two. But it being able to match all four at the same time makes no bloody sense.
22. US doesn't wipe out mafia because it can't. Ancient European empires also couldn't wipe out the pirates.
But at any case the comparison is stupid. Yonkos are not the mafia or the pirates. They are literally emperors. They don't have sanctuaries, they have territories. They rule entire kingdoms.
They are not pirates, they are rulers. But rulers who are so strong that the World Government finds it wise not to challenge them.
FFS, please go back and read the story because it is clear you have not understood even the basic worldbuilding of One Piece.
OK, you really have no clue about the manga you have supposedly read.
There are two types of Vice Admirals: normal Vice Admirals and Headquarters Vice Admirals.
Normal Vice Admirals are just a fodder.
Headquarters Vice Admirals are not. These are the guys like Tsuru and Momonga.
Bounties are based on the threat level, which largely (but not exclusively) means strength. If Akainu suddenly quit the Navy and became a pirate, you can bet he would be given a Yonko bounty, simply due to how strong he is. Blackbeard meanwhile had to build up his bounty because he 1) hid his strength originally and 2) he is still a rookie (relatively) and is thus still growing in strength. It would make no sense for his bounty to not have increased over time.
And in the end, both Cross Guild and World Government bounties are Oda's bounties. They are a storytelling device, and therefore it makes no sense for them to not be relative to each other.
And the relative strength they show do make sense within the story.
Yeah, I mistook him for Sengoku. But considering his position, personality and recent behavior, it makes no sense to assume Akainu does not have Conqueror's Haki.
Kid and Law had to work together to beat Big Meme in the end. Luffy defeated Kaido on his own. And while Kaido was definitely nerfed there due to holding Onigashima up, Luffy himself was also kinda beat up.
My point with "killing" part is that you cannot use "he killed X" or "he failed to kill X" to downplay a character. It is Oda's story, and survival depends on the plot, not the threat.
Luffy actually ran quite a lot.
Longetivity in the role matters, and it matters a lot. Fact that they had been Yonkos for a long time, and were therefore proven to be capable of defending their own territories. Luffy is a newcomer and thus has no such proof. And Luffy being Nika is not something anybody knew other than the Gorosei, so using that as an argument is completely baseless.
And remember that Navy doesn't know what happened at Onigashima. They know only that two Emperors were taken out, not how - hence why Luffy, Law and Kidd received equal bounties.
Lastly, the point is moot anyway since Saturn was there with Kizaru, and he will clearly be stronger than an Admiral. So even if one were to assume that Luffy was far stronger than Kizaru (which he isn't) that still wouldn't have been enough to stop the operation.
Uh, no.
World Government is clearly doing its best to hide the fact that Luffy was the one who beat Kaido. Hence why Luffy, Kidd and Law all received equal bounties, where in reality Luffy's bounty should have been twice of either Kid's or Law's.
And when have I said that Luffy doesn't consider Navy a threat? You are the one who seems to believe that Admirals can only ever be a threat if they are strictly equal to Yonkos. Which is just dumb as shit.
Yeah, no. Don't assign your own attributes to others. I even tried to be as polite as possible despite all your lies and bullshit, but you clearly deserve no respect.
Piss off.
Turn on your brain, will ya?
If that was the logic, no country in world's history will have ever attacked another, because other rivals could always exploit it.
Yet wars have been happening all over the world since beginning of humanity.
Your "logic" and "basic military sense" are nothing but unprecedented bullshit.
Did you think I would forget?
Besides that, do you not know what the “=~” sign means? You can’t start backtracking and pretend you never said that just 1 Yonko empire was comparable to the Navy & Warlords.
Those were your own very words. Navy + Warlords =~ 1 Yonko empire.
You’re only changing your tune now that I’ve shown how silly that is.
Besides that, the Navy needing to deploy 2 Admirals to defeat a Yonko applies regardless of whether the Admirals are exactly equal or slightly stronger or weaker. I already mentioned that, so that excuse doesn’t work.
They will always need to send 2 Admirals for a guaranteed victory unless there’s so much of a difference in strength that 1 Admiral is always guaranteed to win against a Yonko or so much weaker that even 2 Admirals had no chance of doing the job. Both those options are clearly silly.
So why doesn’t the math add up even when using the disingenuous reasoning of pretending that Cross Guild bounties are equivalent to WG ones? Curious, no?
All I did was point out the lies, omissions, prevarications and illogical statements you were making. Again, it’s not like your comments just disappeared:
- you tried to equate clearly distinct things like CG bounties & WG ones
- Ignored context for situations involving the Admirals while conveniently only remembering it when it came to the Yonko
- Made illogical claims like “a military shouldn’t consider all possibilities. They should only expect their multiple enemies to attack 1 at a time.”
Where’s the lie? Are you going to try to dispute that when your comments are right there? Come on now.
Also, your excuses still don’t work. Countries throughout history still attack each other because would you believe it, unlike you they consider all possibilities and cover their backsides. They make pacts, keep forces in reserve, prepare contingencies, etc.
They don’t have the luxury of expecting their foes to only attack one at a time like you suggest. Again, even beyond just basic military sense, it’s common sense 101.
The WG doesn’t have the luxury of thinking that the Yonko have a set schedule where the others agree to do nothing when one makes a move.
We don’t have all eternity to be going over this. Just answer the simple question of why your math doesn’t add up. Navy & Warlords vs Big Mom pirates bounties…why is it so far from “=~” ?
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Apoo could do that even without adv coc though, so still ain’t looking good
When did a couple of minutes become an hour? And ain’t Luffy in worse shape than Kizaru? Don’t look like poor old adv CoC could help with that
What on earth is a “lizaru” anyway?
When did a couple of minutes become an hour? And ain’t Luffy in worse shape than Kizaru? Don’t look like poor old adv CoC could help with that
What on earth is a “lizaru” anyway?
Sure "worst shape" due to G5 drawback compared to Lizaru getting paralysed after one attack
Wapoo can do it but not Lizaru. What is oda trying to tell here?
Sure "worst shape" due to G5 drawback compared to Lizaru getting paralysed after one attack
Sure "worst shape" due to G5 drawback compared to Lizaru getting paralysed after one attack
Kizaru never got to face Onigashima Luffy on the live floor. Otherwise there may have not been enough of the rubber boy left to send Kaido to an early grave in magma
Maybe Oda’s telling us to thank him for that.
Worse shape is still worse shape. It may not be as bad as being melted away in magma while former employees drink to your memory in prison…but it’s still pretty bad
What’s a “Lizaru?”
Kizaru never got to face Onigashima Luffy on the live floor. Otherwise there may have not been enough of the rubber boy left to send Kaido to an early grave in magma
Maybe Oda’s telling us to thank him for that.
Worse shape is still worse shape. It may not be as bad as being melted away in magma while former employees drink to your memory in prison…but it’s still pretty bad
Kizaru never got to face Onigashima Luffy on the live floor. Otherwise there may have not been enough of the rubber boy left to send Kaido to an early grave in magma
Maybe Oda’s telling us to thank him for that.
Worse shape is still worse shape. It may not be as bad as being melted away in magma while former employees drink to your memory in prison…but it’s still pretty bad
Imagine getting one shotted lol. One attack and Kizaru is seeing stars
None of Lizaru's attack did anything relevant to luffy
Imagine getting one shotted lol. One attack and Kizaru is seeing stars
Imagine getting one shotted lol. One attack and Kizaru is seeing stars
Poor old Kaido was also seeing stars even when Luffy was just in test drive. Seems adv CoC couldn’t stop it
