Spoiler Unfiltered Kingdom Talks - Historical info & all that jazz (Beware)

Interesting, I didn’t know about the second Zhao battle this year..is this the battle of Roumou?

If this is the case, we may get that Tou vs Riboku and Shibashou matchup I was talking about a few months back. Lol
It's not the battle of Roumou. Roumou is located in the northern Zhao and in the manga it was already conquered by HSU at the start of this arc.

Chapter 6 of Shiji says that Qin sent two armies. One to Gyou (in the manga this is Tou Army) and second to Taigen (in the manga this is northeastern army with Ousen, Yotanwa etc) which conquered Roumou.

Chapter 43 says that Riboku defeated Qin army that attacked Hango.

Then according to chapter 81 Riboku defeated the Qin army in the location south of Zhao, which is near the northern borders of Wei and Han. However, there are multiple different translations of this line, some suggesting that Riboku instead defeated Wei and Han armies in battle. Which made some fans speculate that those two states might also be involved this arc, although personally I find it very unlikely.
 
It's not the battle of Roumou. Roumou is located in the northern Zhao and in the manga it was already conquered by HSU at the start of this arc.

Chapter 6 of Shiji says that Qin sent two armies. One to Gyou (in the manga this is Tou Army) and second to Taigen (in the manga this is northeastern army with Ousen, Yotanwa etc) which conquered Roumou.

Chapter 43 says that Riboku defeated Qin army that attacked Hango.

Then according to chapter 81 Riboku defeated the Qin army in the location south of Zhao, which is near the northern borders of Wei and Han. However, there are multiple different translations of this line, some suggesting that Riboku instead defeated Wei and Han armies in battle. Which made some fans speculate that those two states might also be involved this arc, although personally I find it very unlikely.
This is extremely interesting!
I would love to see a RBK vs other state battle. It would mirror RBK's and Houken's introduction.

They defeated Ouki and then Gekishin. Now SBS defeats Ousen and later another GG
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
It's not the battle of Roumou. Roumou is located in the northern Zhao and in the manga it was already conquered by HSU at the start of this arc.

Chapter 6 of Shiji says that Qin sent two armies. One to Gyou (in the manga this is Tou Army) and second to Taigen (in the manga this is northeastern army with Ousen, Yotanwa etc) which conquered Roumou.

Chapter 43 says that Riboku defeated Qin army that attacked Hango.

Then according to chapter 81 Riboku defeated the Qin army in the location south of Zhao, which is near the northern borders of Wei and Han. However, there are multiple different translations of this line, some suggesting that Riboku instead defeated Wei and Han armies in battle. Which made some fans speculate that those two states might also be involved this arc, although personally I find it very unlikely.
That’s right, I forgot the HSU already took Roumou lol.

I hope we get Riboku vs Tou…
 
The sources used sound quite dubious, like the ones that claimed that Zhao Yun died because his wife pricked him with a needle and he bled out because of hemophilia, or that Cao Cao went around crashing weddings and raping the bride in his youth.

We'll see what Hara decides to do, but I wouldn't be surprised if he actually survives like Haradid with Ryofui, as one of the posters said, since he's one of Hara's favourites. Either that, or the one about Kaine being pregnant with his child and then escaping to the HSU through her relationship with Ten after witnessing Riboku's death.
 

Peroroncino

🅷🅰🅻🅰 🅼🅰🅳🆁🅸🅳
The sources used sound quite dubious, like the ones that claimed that Zhao Yun died because his wife pricked him with a needle and he bled out because of hemophilia, or that Cao Cao went around crashing weddings and raping the bride in his youth.

We'll see what Hara decides to do, but I wouldn't be surprised if he actually survives like Haradid with Ryofui, as one of the posters said, since he's one of Hara's favourites. Either that, or the one about Kaine being pregnant with his child and then escaping to the HSU through her relationship with Ten after witnessing Riboku's death.
oh no does that mean Fu tei might also oh nooooooooooooo
 
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The sources used sound quite dubious, like the ones that claimed that Zhao Yun died because his wife pricked him with a needle and he bled out because of hemophilia, or that Cao Cao went around crashing weddings and raping the bride in his youth.

We'll see what Hara decides to do, but I wouldn't be surprised if he actually survives like Haradid with Ryofui, as one of the posters said, since he's one of Hara's favourites. Either that, or the one about Kaine being pregnant with his child and then escaping to the HSU through her relationship with Ten after witnessing Riboku's death.
As a Riboku stan, him surviving would be so trash man. Ryofui is one thing and I was fine with that resolution but this other man, who he is and what he represents, is something else entirely. I hope this "outcome" has never seriously crossed Hara's mind.

On the subject of Kaine and a possible child, I see what you wrote as a quite likely.
 
oh no does that Fu tei might also oh nooooooooooooo
Futei will survive, until Dai falls at least. Dai's Great Heaven Futei :myman:
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As a Riboku stan, him surviving would be so trash man. Ryofui is one thing and I was fine with that resolution but this other man, who he is and what he represents, is something else entirely. I hope this "outcome" has never seriously crossed Hara's mind.

On the subject of Kaine and a possible child, I see what you wrote as a quite likely.
Well, Riboku being executed would be trash also, IMO. If he dies, I hope he goes out swinging, like he finally decides to take out the king and the other assholes, but his plot gets discovered and they prepare a heavy guard around the king, Riboku is too outnumbered and dies in the fight, or something like that. Him meekly being executed would be just terrible.
 
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The sources used sound quite dubious, like the ones that claimed that Zhao Yun died because his wife pricked him with a needle and he bled out because of hemophilia, or that Cao Cao went around crashing weddings and raping the bride in his youth.

We'll see what Hara decides to do, but I wouldn't be surprised if he actually survives like Haradid with Ryofui, as one of the posters said, since he's one of Hara's favourites. Either that, or the one about Kaine being pregnant with his child and then escaping to the HSU through her relationship with Ten after witnessing Riboku's death.
Yeah no, that’d be “Obito was the coolest guy” level of dumbass
 
Well, Riboku being executed would be trash also, IMO. If he dies, I hope he goes out swinging, like he finally decides to take out the king and the other assholes, but his plot gets discovered and they prepare a heavy guard around the king, Riboku is too outnumbered and dies in the fight, or something like that. Him meekly being executed would be just terrible.
It could also go like that, but I heavily disagree on a straight up execution being bad. It'd be the tragic end of a man who the Qin couldn't eliminate on the battlefield, who dedicated his entire being to the preservation of Zhao doing everything he could - and had to endure that same Zhao - ...and that now is instead tragically helpless as his own state passes its final, wicked judgement on him. (And on Zhao itself). An execution would bring out the best of both the scenic and the tragic aspect for this one, imo.

Hara also played with concept of a Riboku execution back then, when he was arrested and imprisoned. (And also highlighting Shin's conflicting mix of reactions upon hearing that).

But however it goes, I'm already ready to crown Riboku's death as the greatest in the manga.
 
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It could also go like that, but I heavily disagree on a straight up execution being bad. It'd be the tragic end of a man who the Qin couldn't eliminate on the battlefield, who dedicated his entire being to the preservation of Zhao doing everything he could - and had to endure that same Zhao - ...and that now is instead tragically helpless as his own state passes its final, wicked judgement on him. (And on Zhao itself). An execution would bring out the best of both the scenic and the tragic aspect for this one, imo.

Hara also played with concept of a Riboku execution back then, when he was arrested and imprisoned. (And also highlighting Shin's conflicting mix of reactions upon hearing that).

But however it goes, I'm already ready to crown Riboku's death as the greatest in the manga.
Riboku would go down as one of my favorite antagonists in history if this is how his story ends.
 
It could also go like that, but I heavily disagree on a straight up execution being bad. It'd be the tragic end of a man who the Qin couldn't eliminate on the battlefield, who dedicated his entire being to the preservation of Zhao doing everything he could - and had to endure that same Zhao - ...and that now is instead tragically helpless as his own state passes its final, wicked judgement on him. (And on Zhao itself). An execution would bring out the best of both the scenic and the tragic aspect for this one, imo.

Hara also played with concept of a Riboku execution back then, when he was arrested and imprisoned. (And also highlighting Shin's conflicting mix of reactions upon hearing that).

But however it goes, I'm already ready to crown Riboku's death as the greatest in the manga.
It's going to be one of the saddest moments in Manga history, pure tragedy. The state will put an end to itself with the execution of the one man that held everything together.

Kakukai and Youka will cook, sadly.

Given how amazing Kanki's death was I have full trust in Hara to deliver.
it will be so sad
:josad:
 
One of the most interesting future events is the Wei campaign. Historically it was Wang Ben (Ouhon) who attacked Wei and flooded its sieged capital, causing a shit ton of deaths civilians included. The king surrendered and Wei fell.

I do think that in the manga too, Hara will have Ouhon be the leading figure of the Wei conquest. By that time he'll be one of the Qin Six, one of the most powerful generals in China. Wei's top military figure will of course be prime Gohoumei, likewise one of China's best. They'll be directly against each other since years prior in the Fire Dragons arc, when a very young Ouhon pulled a huge upset on everyone, Homei first.

This time around it will be really crazy fight between monsters. And Wei is a huge state, I expect a lot of important figures and pieces to show up and intersect in this section of the story. I'm certain that Shin himself will partecipate in the campaigns. He will have his rematch against Gaimou and will bring his answers to him.

It will be interesting to see if Hara follows through with the capital flooding from Ouhon and having the manga explore the implications of that. Basically both the "if" and then the "how" things will be written. This would certainly be a key moment in Ouhon's individual path and Qin's quest to unify China (and maybe considering certain past events with different generals from Qin still).
 
This is the theory I was referring to @TheKnightOfTheSea

Shin and Mou Ten will be appointed 6GGs first. This will greatly upset Ou Hon for obvious reasons.

Around the same time, Yan’s botched assassination of Sei will result in Kou or Shou Bun Kun (or both) dying to protect him in identical fashion to Shi Ka.

Reliving this traumatic experience of grief and powerlessness will change Sei for the worse and begin his descent into tyranny.

Shin will be appointed Supreme Commander to invade Yan. Though concerned by the change in Sei’s demeanor, he will rationalise that avenging Hyou gave him the closure he needed and convince himself the old Sei will return after he crushes Yan.

The Yan Campaign will be a brutal affair, and by the end of it Shin will feel all types of ways. He will be especially disturbed by Qin generals and soldiers under him presuming to flaunt the laws of war and committing atrocities. Naturally, he will adjudicate the king's justice and imprison the offenders (and we may even see him carry out wartime executions himself).

The successful Yan Campaign will not bring the old Sei back. He is changed for the worse and their relationship begins to strain as a result. The two are at odds almost every time they meet in person and things come to ahead at the end of the Wei Campaign led by a one-armed Tou.

While Shin and Gai Mou settle their affairs in a bloody duel, Ou Hon, calloused by shame and frustration and possibly further egged on by Ou Sen's comments, diverts the Yellow River to prove himself as capable. The flood kills more than 100,000 people, including tens of thousands of civilians.

An enraged Shin will have to be restrained from killing him, there may even be a brief skirmish between the HSU and Gyoku Hou (that is of course swept under the rug), prompted by their respective generals getting into violent confrontation.

After they return to Kanyou, Shin expects justice only for Sei to thank and praise Ou Hon for ending the war quickly and without any further losses to Qin soldiers.

After an angry shouting match in which Shin accuses Sei of hypocrisy and creating another Kan Ki, he leaves the Kanyou in a fury. Sei will be extremely angry with him but likely take it out on court advisors urging him to have his former best friend executed.

Hara will use text boxes to reveal Shin and Sei never reconcile their differences and that the king losing his only true friend and ally is what plants the seeds of calamity for the Qin Dynasty.

Tou, feeling responsible, retires from the 6GG. He is rewarded with governorship of Han. Ou Hon is elevated to the 6GGs and becomes Sei's new guy, thereby giving Hara an organic justification as to why Ou Hon/Wang Ben was much more prolific than the comparatively obscure Ri Shin/Li Xin.

By the time the Chu Campaign comes about, partly motivated to extend an olive branch and make peace, Sei sides with and appoints Shin to lead it over Ou Sen. After it fails, he doesn't punish Shin despite having justification, but the atrocities continue unabated everywhere Shin is not and Sei remains beyond persuasion, and so the two never reconcile.

After unification, Shin retires and is given titles, honours and a sizeable fief (Longxi, modern Gansu) for his accomplishments.


In truth, however, it will also be a soft banishment as the territory he is given will be far removed from Kanyou. When the Qin Dynasty falls, news won't reach Shin until it's too late, but it wouldn't have made a difference as he has put down his arms for good. After a lifetime of war and strife, and now likely a widow, Shin has no further appetite for bloodshed.

The ending of Kingdom is bittersweet, but Hara will reveal that Shin's descendants do go on to be impressive individuals and the eventual royal house of the Tang Dynasty. That is the end.
 
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TheKnightOfTheSea

𝕷𝖔𝖗𝖉 𝖔𝖋 𝕸𝖔𝖔𝖓'𝖘 𝕾𝖕𝖆𝖜𝖓
I pretty much completely agree. I've had similar theories too.

Shin and Mou Ten will be appointed 6GGs first. This will greatly upset Ou Hon for obvious reasons.
Though I'm not too sure about both Shin and Mouten getting promoted beforehand, but Hara can just give them huge achievements in Han or Zhao. I always figured it would be Ouhon and Shin but this makes sense. Maybe we can say that Ousen influenced the court for some reason to not promote Ouhon?

Around the same time, Yan’s botched assassination of Sei will result in Kou or Shou Bun Kun (or both) dying to protect him in identical fashion to Shi Ka.
I've theorized about Shoubunkun dying in the Yan assassination for awhile. It makes the most sense, and I think eventually he'll die, though it will be a big deal because he's been there since almost chapter 1. Do you recall when the Yan King ordered Prince Dan/En Tan to return to the capital? Dan is the man behind the assassination, and I think the fact he's being mentioned almost a decade before he's relevant historically is a sign of his great importance.

If Sei turns evil, it will be because of Dan. I'm very excited to see Dan and I think he'll be the closest thing the state of Yan has the "main villain"

Kou dying makes sense but I never thought of it. Makes sense considering Sei told her the Shika story.

Shin will be appointed Supreme Commander to invade Yan. Though concerned by the change in Sei’s demeanor, he will rationalise that avenging Hyou gave him the closure he needed and convince himself the old Sei will return after he crushes Yan.
Sei turning evil could make a lot of character decisions more impactful. Let's say that it influences Shouheikun's future actions too, and maybe it leads to the King of Qi Ouken or even Ousen somehow acting as the final villain.

While Shin and Gai Mou settle their affairs in a bloody duel, Ou Hon, calloused by shame and frustration and possibly further egged on by Ou Sen's comments, diverts the Yellow River to prove himself as capable. The flood kills more than 100,000 people, including tens of thousands of civilians.
I hope Hara doesn't sugar coat it. Ouhon being the man who gets the most impressive achievement against Wei has definitely been foreshadowed based off his strategic victory during the Fire Dragons arc.

I believe this page is foreshadowing:


An enraged Shin will have to be restrained from killing him, there may even be a brief skirmish between the HSU and Gyoku Hou (that is of course swept under the rug), prompted by their respective generals getting into violent confrontation.
I can see that happening. Shin and Ouhon have clashed many times before. Maybe Tou will interfere again?

After an angry shouting match in which Shin accuses Sei of hypocrisy and creating another Kan Ki, he leaves the Kanyou in a fury. Sei will be extremely angry with him but likely take it out on court advisors urging him to have his former best friend executed.
I recall after the Kochou vs Kanki arc, we got a scene of Sei and Ouhon talking and I noted Ouhon seemed very loyal. Sei "replacing" Shin as his sword with Ouhon is a real possibility imo.

Also it could be a moment where Ouken turns against Sei, which would be a huge blow.

In truth, however, it will also be a soft banishment as the territory he is given will be far removed from Kanyou. When the Qin Dynasty falls, news won't reach Shin until it's too late, but it wouldn't have made a difference as he has put down his arms for good. After a lifetime of war and strife, and now likely a widow, Shin has no further appetite for bloodshed.
You think Kyoukai is dead by this point?

I've considered that the terracotta warriors that guard Sei's tomb would be based off the Hi Shin Unit, and i've lowkey entertained the idea of Shin letting Sei die (i.e, he refuses to get him medicine or alert his doctors after Sei has an attack from his mercury poisoning).
 
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