Controversial General Political Discussion

[Toby D. Dog]

So we are using mental gymnastics to say that Hamas attacked FIRST ignoring the context because hamas caused the latest development of a 50 year conflict.
Saying that Hamas attacked first is False.
Just blatantly.
You can say that it sparked the latest development, whatever, it's irrelevant. Because you cannot say that Hamas attacked first when there are tangible proof of the opposite. Because the conflict itself started BEFORE the creation of Hamas.

He refuses to acknowledge apartheid. Because it’s an inconvenient truth. But you should’ve seen him a couple of months ago. He was calling it a genocide, acknowledging war crimes and massive death tolls, admitting the Israeli state was killing innocents on purpose, you name it!

a shame he decided to engage in virtue signaling and white washing the war crimes of an apartheid state.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Talking about the 2023 conflict without context is blind and stupid.

Am I not allowed to criticize the fact that Hamas facilitates and weaponizes the death of their own people?

Post automatically merged: Jan 17, 2025

And also, this still makes the claim of Hamas hit first False.

Oct 6th = no war

Oct 8th = war

what happened in between?

Post automatically merged: Jan 17, 2025

He refuses to acknowledge apartheid. Because it’s an inconvenient truth. But you should’ve seen him a couple of months ago. He was calling it a genocide, acknowledging war crimes and massive death tolls, admitting the Israeli state was killing innocents on purpose, you name it!

a shame he decided to engage in virtue signaling and white washing the war crimes of an apartheid state.

If I was saying all of that then I’m obviously not refusing to acknowledge anything

 

[Toby D. Dog]

If I was saying all of that then I’m obviously not refusing to acknowledge anything

What you’re doing is called concern trolling.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

What you’re doing is called concern trolling.

How

Post automatically merged: Jan 17, 2025

Concern trolling implies that I pretend to hold a position that I actually don’t. But I have never done such a thing

I’ve literally admitted that I’m a Zionist lmao

Actually asked around. Take this back.

Committing crimes does not cause you to lose Jewishness, it just gets you shunned by the community.

Apparently according to Halacha, nothing can take away one’s Jewishness, even if you converted into Judaism.

Post automatically merged: Jan 6, 2025

idk who says that. Sounds more like something a non jew would say or someone who has very little connection with the community.

Most Jews are some sort of Zionist. I suppose you could even classify me one, as I support the two state solution(seen by some as Zionism), but I prefer not to put labels on myself.

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

Am I not allowed to criticize the fact that Hamas facilitates and weaponizes the death of their own people?

Post automatically merged: Jan 17, 2025

Oct 6th = no war

Oct 8th = war

what happened in between?

Post automatically merged: Jan 17, 2025

If I was saying all of that then I’m obviously not refusing to acknowledge anything

Oct 6, Gaza civilians die shot by Israeli soldiers every day.
Oct 8, Gaza civilians die shortly by Israeli soldiers every day but more.

 

[Uncle Van]

Am I not allowed to criticize the fact that Hamas facilitates and weaponizes the death of their own people?

Post automatically merged: Jan 17, 2025

Oct 6th = no war

Oct 8th = war

what happened in between?

Post automatically merged: Jan 17, 2025

If I was saying all of that then I’m obviously not refusing to acknowledge anything

It's just that overall, your posts comes off as pro-Israel at a glance.


Bottom line is that Israel was trying to violently occupy Palestine for over a century which created many resistance groups, which also increased in violence. Then Hamas bombed Israel which accurately marked them terrorists, and obviously Israel would strike back harder with all the funding and support from the west. History didn't start Oct 7th.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Oct 6, Gaza civilians die shot by Israeli soldiers every day.
Oct 8, Gaza civilians die shortly by Israeli soldiers every day but more.

Didn’t happen

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israeli–Palestinian_conflict_in_2023

There was violence in the West Bank. Obviously that is wrong.

But the war in Gaza was specifically triggered by Oct 7th

Post automatically merged: Jan 17, 2025

It's just that overall, your posts comes off as pro-Israel at a glance.

If that’s how y’all perceive it, idc. Israel is just a country.

Bottom line is that Israel was trying to violently occupy Palestine for over a century which created many resistance groups, which also increased in violence. Then Hamas bombed Israel which accurately marked them terrorists, and obviously Israel would strike back harder with all the funding and support from the west. History didn't start Oct 7th.

Never claimed otherwise

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

Didn’t happen

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israeli–Palestinian_conflict_in_2023

There was violence in the West Bank. Obviously that is wrong.

But the war in Gaza was specifically triggered by Oct 7th

Post automatically merged: Jan 17, 2025

If that’s how y’all perceive it, idc. Israel is just a country.




Never claimed otherwise

Again, you ignore context.
Example:
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...-in-gaza/0000017f-f02b-d497-a1ff-f2ab3be90000

 

[Toby D. Dog]

How
Post automatically merged: 53 minutes ago
Concern trolling implies that I pretend to hold a position that I actually don’t. But I have never done such a thing

I’ve literally admitted that I’m a Zionist lmao

Lmao, At least you admit it now.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Again, you ignore context.
Example:
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...-in-gaza/0000017f-f02b-d497-a1ff-f2ab3be90000

Yes I know about that

 

[Soyz]

Again, you ignore context.
Example:
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...-in-gaza/0000017f-f02b-d497-a1ff-f2ab3be90000

Innocent civilians throwing rocks, and it was the entirety of 2018 not just the "protest"

 

[Reborn]

In absolute, there are no good or bad people, there are only people who do good or bad ethical things. .

So there are no good or bad people but only actions can be termed as good or bad?

Did it occur to you that actions define our behaviour and thoughts and that's why people get referred as good or bad based on the acts they committed.


But let's go with your technicality.

So, why do you call Trump fascist rather than saying only his actions are fascists but Trump himself isn't?

 

[Logiko]

Did it occur to you that actions define our behaviour and thoughts and that's why people get referred as good or bad based on the acts they committed.

Yes, but those vision are contextual and relative to one person to another.

You could say that there are ethical and non ethical people, but even then it would essentialize a person's actions to their entire persona which is simplistic things to do. We are complex, we have contradictions and we are not always ethical or good.

At worse, you could say that a person is more likely to do bad or bad ethical things than good or good ethical things.

But let's go with your technicality.

So, why do you call Trump fascist rather than saying only his actions are fascists but Trump himself isn't?

Because I'm a leftist and to fight crypto fascism, I need to strike hard and not simply be nice with everyone.

- Labelling or the essentialism of crypto fascist and fascist enablers is a political strategy to push people to realize what they are doing and push them in front of their own responsibility and behavior.

- This is also done in order to inform others - who might not be politically aware - to be careful and show that the political inclination of those crypto fascist enablers is not accepted and should not be accepted. Naming problems is a way to understand and be aware of them.

This means that labelling/essentializing, while not the best human thing to do, is a necessary political tool of prevention and defense against toxic ideologies.

 

[Reborn]

Yes, but those vision are contextual and relative to one person to another.

You could say that there are ethical and non ethical people, but even then it would essentialize a person's actions to their entire persona which is simplistic things to do. We are complex, we have contradictions and we are not always ethical or good.

At worse, you could say that a person is more likely to do bad or bad ethical things than good or good ethical things.


Because I'm a leftist and to fight crypto fascism, I need to strike hard and not simply be nice with everyone.

- Labelling or the essentialism of crypto fascist and fascist enablers is a political strategy to push people to realize what they are doing and push them in front of their own responsibility and behavior.

- This is also done in order to inform others - who might not be politically aware - to be careful and show that the political inclination of those crypto fascist enablers is not accepted and should not be accepted. Naming problems is a way to understand and be aware of them.

This means that labelling/essentializing, while not the best human thing to do, is a necessary political tool of prevention and defense against toxic ideologies.

So in short you label people as per your conveniences and agenda...got it.

 

[Logiko]

So in short you label people as per your conveniences and agenda...got it.

Not convenience or agenda. Political and ethical necessity.

I'm sorry but that's not something you are gonna understand on your side of the political spectrum.

 

[Reborn]

Not convenience or agenda. Political and ethical necessity.

I'm sorry but that's not something you are gonna understand on your side of the political spectrum.

Yes that's the defence you always have to hide your illogical reasoning, double standards and hypocrisy - "You can't understand"

 

[Brush D. Teeth]

It doesn’t matter how you try to justify October 7th, that event objectively kicked off the Israel Hamas war

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel–Hamas_war

It’s right there.

Post automatically merged: Jan 16, 2025

You can say this war is part of a larger conflict that was started decades ago by people long dead. Blame the Zionists or whatever.

but this specifuc war was started by Hamas

So your only argument is that what I said doesn't matter because reasons. Seems like you people are always right by definition, or perhaps by God's approval? Gott mit uns, right?

 

[Logiko]

Yes that's the defence you always have to hide your illogical reasoning, double standards and hypocrisy - "You can't understand"

That's because, by political logic, you can't understand.

You are on the other side, close to those who defend those guyz. You do not see the fights against oppression, anticapitalism, political strategies, complete scientific importance etc.

You and others here are refusing leftism not based on your rationnality but emotions and ideologies, it's a lack of acceptation. You refuse not because you do not know, but because you do not want to know. And thus, there is a wall between us that can't be cross unless you try. So you do not understand my reasonning, which is logical.

But I understand yours. Because I was like you once, until I started to accept to understand things.

 

[Reborn]

That's because, by political logic, you can't understand.

You are on the other side, close to those who defend those guyz. You do not see the fights against oppression, anticapitalism, political strategies, complete scientific importance etc.

You and others here are refusing leftism not based on your rationnality but emotions and ideologies, it's a lack of acceptation. You refuse not because you do not know, but because you do not want to know. And thus, there is a wall between us that can't be cross unless you try. So you do not understand my reasonning, which is logical.

But I understand yours. Because I was like you once, until I started to accept to understand things.

Yeah yeah we got it bro....

Human nature doesn't exists. Humans aren't good or bad. Only actions are good or bad.



But Trump is Fascist became agenda....

His fans are Fascists enablers - because agenda.....

You apply things as per your agenda.

If anyone question you - "you don't understand"

If anyone else use their reason " you go around lecturing them"


Bro you are walking double standard hypocrite

 

[Rej]

I am the ubermensch