Powers & Abilities Roof piece Zoro without Enma

[mly90]

I've never seen a fandom be so insecure about a powerup. "Oh no Zoro got stronger, He was supposed to be super doper cool from the start "
Sheesh Enies Lobby and Thriller bark must of been a nightmare for you gents, back to back powerups for Zoro :risitasad:. The Horror a character in a battle manga got powerups


When Did I not give credit to Zoro? Because I said enma is a powerup , how does that take away from what Zoro did?

Because you attribute the things he did to Enma which is utter bs i still disagree about it being power up. Unless i was dreaming and Zoro got his hands Yoru Shodai kitetsu or Whitebeards Murakumogiri these are the only blades i consider a powerup to Shusui and Wado.

 

[Dr_Professor83]

Nothing about Enma is magical reread 955.
Powerup would have been if Zoro received a supreme grade blade instead he exchanged great grade blade for another, only difference being this one actually drains your haki. When Zoro overcomes that by training himself and uses it with almost with the same mastery as Shusui that means he is just that great. Any non biased rational reader would actually give Zoro his fully deserved credit instead of putting all the hype into Enma we know exactly what it does. Characters who are on the same level as Jack were terrified of this blade that Zoro casually tamed

Zoro absolutely deserves his credit, and anyone using Enma to downplay Zoro is trolling. But I cannot agree when people say it’s not a power up in the slightest or it’s just another sword.

Enma’s nature makes it incredibly dangerous and special. The trick is that it’s only so in the right hands. It clearly appears to use the users own haki, but the user could not normally output that much haki naturally. Enma takes it by force which allows it to unleash some devastating attacks that the wielder could not use with out it. Still that power needs to exist within the user to begin with.

Saying Enma isn’t a power up is simply not true. Saying it’s power is from the sword and not Zoro is also not true as far as I can tell.

Both sides refuting either have their own biases. Enma is a power up because it lets a user draw more from their own power than without it.

 

[U c 4 up da idly]

Because you attribute the things he did to Enma which is utter bs i still disagree about it being power up. Unless i was dreaming and Zoro got his hands Yoru Shodai kitetsu or Whitebeards Murakumogiri these are the only blades i consider a powerup to Shusui and Wado.

When Did I say that? Saying Enma is a powerup doesn't take away what Zoro did It's like saying a F1 driver didn't win the race his car did

 

[hedera__helix]

That's a gag scence and a callback to what he Zoro said in Zou. Yes enma requires mastery it doesn't change the fact that it is still a powerup.

One piece is a battle manga a character getting a powerup is standard procedure

Lol no, it hindered him on the rooftop. At first, he limited his Haki too much when him and Killer went for a combo attack on Kaido and then he used too much when he went for Flying Dragon Blaze which left him wheezing and let Kaido dodge easier. The same thing happened to him in the team battle against Oars where he had to learn to control Sandai Kitetsu better. And that scene still puts into perspective Zoro's perception of his own power, gag or not.

Blocking Hakai and Asura scarring Kaido had nothing to do with Enma.

 

[Finalbeta]

Zolo gets negged and would be hella fucking useless

without enma Zolo doesn’t even know natural ryou as he never learned it lol

He’s use basic CoA and get negged and contribute less than Kid

Why do all the characters you don't like always get negged?

 

[Gears Kaios]

Why do all the characters you don't like always get negged?

It’s not the characters i dislike, it’s the fans

But I seriously mean NEGGED what can a ryou less zoro do to Kaido?

 

[KageFumi]

2 whole years Zoro mastering Shusui, while Enma for just few days. Enma is a huge handicap for Zoro. Seriously, with Shusui Zoro will not exhausted easily because that ryuo sucking sword.

 

[Finalbeta]

It’s not the characters i dislike, it’s the fans

But I seriously mean NEGGED what can a ryou less zoro do to Kaido?

First off do you know what Ryou even is? That's the barrier haki Zoro presumably used to tackle Hakai for example. What's your evidence that Enma granted him such exactly considering Oda even specified how "Enma's" haki comes from Zoro and not Oden? Not that it was required to be specified exactly.

 

[Dr_Professor83]

2 whole years Zoro mastering Shusui, while Enma for just few days. Enma is a huge handicap for Zoro. Seriously, with Shusui Zoro will not exhausted easily because that ryuo sucking sword.

It’s a double edged blade. It’s more exhausting but for much greater pay off. Nerfs you in one are for a big pay off in another. Overall a good trade I believe due to Kaido’s defense.

 

[mly90]

Both sides refuting either have their own biases. Enma is a power up because it lets a user draw more from their own power than without it.

Enma either drains your haki like when Zoro first tested it out or you master it which gives you complete control over how much haki you draw out without that control Enma is just a piece of junk, it's the main reason the scabbards decided to refrain from going anywhere near it. It's not letting Zoro have access to more haki he is the one controlling his haki output
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It's like saying a F1 driver didn't win the race his car did

That is exactly what has been spouted nonstop about Enma since the roof top fights started lmao where were you.
What you are saying sounds like a f1 driver getting a different car with the same speed quality and then claiming that driver got a better car when he wins the race

 

[Dr_Professor83]

Enma either drains your haki like when Zoro first tested it out or you master it which gives you complete control over how much haki you draw out without that control Enma is just a piece of junk, it's the main reason the scabbards decided to refrain from going anywhere near it. It's not letting Zoro have access to more haki he is the one controlling his haki output

Zoro does have to control it to keep it from completely sucking him dry. The scabbards wouldn’t touch it not because it was a piece of junk but because it was legitimately dangerous to the user. It takes a swordsman of Zoro’s caliber to wield it.

If you truly don’t believe that Enma provides anything additional to Zoro that another sword wouldn’t then why are BM & Kaido hyping it to kingdom come.

Explain Kaido’s words to me. There would be no reason to point it out as any different than Wado that is also the same grade sword if it provided only negative value outside of as a training tool.
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What you are saying sounds like a f1 driver getting a different car with the same speed quality and then claiming that driver got a better car when he wins the race

The real analogy is getting a car with more speed but far less control. It takes a more skilled driver to drive it but with higher pay off and in the hands of a lesser driver they would hurt themselves.

 

[draganax]

so does oden.

but it just comes to show how special zoro is, oden was in his prime with all the op haki blooms imaginable and had decades of experience with enma while zoro had only wielded the sword for 3 days and is not even close to his prime yet he achieved the same feat.

zoro was cutting kaido with basic armament, imagine what he'll be capable of when he masters CoC haki flow

 

[CbShadow]

I've been looking over a few chapters & came with the conclusion that without enma zoro wouldn't have did so well as he did against the yonko's , kaido only made reference to enma not zoro, big mom also, even when zoro use three swords to cut kaido it was only enma that cut not the other two sword, it's a fact zoro needed oden sword to become stronger even zoro knows this now someone prove me wrong

Before I even answer this question I need to explain what ryu is. Some people don't understand. Ryu is Wano citizens term for haki. The only difference is most of them are swordsmen or weapon users for them to be able to properly use ryu or haki with their weapon or fighting style they have to learn flow/barrier haki so they can add it to their weapon. Flow/barrier haki is the ability to flow haki from the body.

Zoro first used ryu against Mr. 1. Yes, he has had that power (ryu) since pre time skip.


First, Zoro having enma using doesn't automatically mean he can Kaido. When Zoro first attacked Kaido he didn't cut him. That alone proves the ability to cut Kaido comes from the users (Zoro), not the sword (enma). I almost believe Oda did that on purpose to squash the belief enma is the reason he cut Kaido.

When Zoro used Dragon twister he cut Kaido with all three swords. That is a 3 sword attack. If he wouldn't have cut Kaido with all 3 swords then he would have commented on it. The manga even hints at Zoro ability to cut Kaido way back when he cut the dragon during punk hazard. That's why that feat is compared to Ryuma's feat in the official one piece magazine and even ask if Zoro will repeat Ryuma's legendary dragon cutting feat in Wano.

Enma doesn't increase the strength of Zoro's haki, it just forces him to release larger amounts of haki. Zoro's haki strength would be the same with or without enma. Enma does not retain its previous users haki or store haki.

Yes, Kaido and Big Mom both comment on the sword because it is a unique sword. I have already explained that.

When Zoro cut Kaido with his dragon twister Big Mom stated Zoro cut Kaido. While Kaido stated he felt an unfamiliar haki. It wasn't Oden's haki since Kaido is familiar with Oden's haki. That means the haki he felt was Zoro's haki.

Zoro would be stronger right now with shisui because he fully mastered that sword.
His battle against Pica showed us a small percent of his true power.

We didn't see the true strength of that attack because he didn't need to use billion fold world to cut the golem. The second attack Zoro used, which was a none name attack, cut a large section of Pica than his first attack.

I have already mentioned he cut and killed a dragon with shisui.

Swordsman grow stronger with new swords but that is after they master the sword. That comes from properly controlling the sword. If the user cuts too little or too much with the new sword they haven't mastered. Zoro hasn't fully mastered enma. He is stronger with enma then he was when he first obtained it but still has ways to go. Remembering, what true makes swordsman strong is their ability to cut what they want to or not cut.

Zoro without enma but with shisui would perform similar.

PS: The reason some believe Zoro can't do much to Kaido without enma is because they fail to understand ryu/haki is the key to cutting/hurting Kaido, not enma.

 

[Fn Lucci]

There a reason why Big Mom and Kaido Lost their shit when Zoro was about to do the same Dragon Slaying Attack Ryuma did.
Enma or Oden's "Will"(not CoA or CoC) was out for Blood that moment.

LMAO, the move Ryuma did. Hiryu Kaen is the move he did TO Ryuma

 

[mly90]

If you truly don’t believe that Enma provides anything additional to Zoro that another sword wouldn’t then why are BM & Kaido hyping it to kingdom come.

Because Zoro unleashed one of his most deadly attacks Zoro was lusting for Kaido blood since he first met Yasuie and saw all the suffering Kaido had caused. Then he witnessed his execution so there was a lot of anger emotions behind that attack nothing to do with Enma. Enma alongside Ame gave Kaido his only scar up to that point it would be much weirder if he didn't notice it, and when Zoro cut him he felt same sensation from when Oden used it confirming his suspicions I'm sure Kaido would also have also commented about the Ame.
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The real analogy is getting a car with more speed but far less control. It takes a more skilled driver to drive it but with higher pay off and in the hands of a lesser driver they would hurt themselves.

You mean a car with the same speed that's far more accurate. Yoru and Shodai for example would fit in that analogy perfectly not Enma

 

[Screws Loose242]

Before I even answer this question I need to explain what ryu is. Some people don't understand. Ryu is Wano citizens term for haki. The only difference is most of them are swordsmen or weapon users for them to be able to properly use ryu or haki with their weapon or fighting style they have to learn flow/barrier haki so they can add it to their weapon. Flow/barrier haki is the ability to flow haki from the body.

Zoro first used ryu against Mr. 1. Yes, he has had that power (ryu) since pre time skip.


First, Zoro having enma using doesn't automatically mean he can Kaido. When Zoro first attacked Kaido he didn't cut him. That alone proves the ability to cut Kaido comes from the users (Zoro), not the sword (enma). I almost believe Oda did that on purpose to squash the belief enma is the reason he cut Kaido.

When Zoro used Dragon twister he cut Kaido with all three swords. That is a 3 sword attack. If he wouldn't have cut Kaido with all 3 swords then he would have commented on it. The manga even hints at Zoro ability to cut Kaido way back when he cut the dragon during punk hazard. That's why that feat is compared to Ryuma's feat in the official one piece magazine and even ask if Zoro will repeat Ryuma's legendary dragon cutting feat in Wano.

Enma doesn't increase the strength of Zoro's haki, it just forces him to release larger amounts of haki. Zoro's haki strength would be the same with or without enma. Enma does not retain its previous users haki or store haki.

Yes, Kaido and Big Mom both comment on the sword because it is a unique sword. I have already explained that.

When Zoro cut Kaido with his dragon twister Big Mom stated Zoro cut Kaido. While Kaido stated he felt an unfamiliar haki. It wasn't Oden's haki since Kaido is familiar with Oden's haki. That means the haki he felt was Zoro's haki.

Zoro would be stronger right now with shisui because he fully mastered that sword.
His battle against Pica showed us a small percent of his true power.

We didn't see the true strength of that attack because he didn't need to use billion fold world to cut the golem. The second attack Zoro used, which was a none name attack, cut a large section of Pica than his first attack.

I have already mentioned he cut and killed a dragon with shisui.

Swordsman grow stronger with new swords but that is after they master the sword. That comes from properly controlling the sword. If the user cuts too little or too much with the new sword they haven't mastered. Zoro hasn't fully mastered enma. He is stronger with enma then he was when he first obtained it but still has ways to go. Remembering, what true makes swordsman strong is their ability to cut what they want to or not cut.

Zoro without enma but with shisui would perform similar.

PS: The reason some believe Zoro can't do much to Kaido without enma is because they fail to understand ryu/haki is the key to cutting/hurting Kaido, not enma.

This is a real good explain but I do dis agree with u on a few things like wen zoro cut kaido with dragon twister there was only one cut let us know it was only enma & wat reall confirm this was the first time zoro attack kaido he payed no attention to the others swords but enma only saying he have to release more of its power let us know dats it only enma that can cut kaido,, plus this also confirms that Emma is definitely stronger than shusui be its forces zoro haki out in large amounts with more destructive power, shusui doesn't do that . But we I could be wrong but like your explain :cheers:

 

[Dr_Professor83]

Because Zoro unleashed one of his most deadly attacks Enma Zoro was lusting for Kaido blood since he first met Yasuie and saw all the suffering Kaido had caused. Then he witnessed his execution so there was a lot of anger emotions behind that attack nothing to do with Enma. Enma alongside Ame gave Kaido his only scar up to that point it would be much weirder if he didn't notice it, and when Zoro cut him he felt same sensation from when Oden used it confirming his suspicions I'm sure Kaido would also have also commented about the Ame.

Then why did Big Mom point out the sword? If it had literally nothing to do with Enma then why would the sword itself have been notable? Why didn’t she say swordsman if it was strictly due to what Zoro could do regardless solely from his emotions?

Kaido specifically mentioned the sword’s haki. Unless Kaido has such a memory for detail that he remembered the exact cut of Enma’s blade, how could he have felt anything different about Enma than Wado when they are the same grade? Or are you saying that Kaido does know the distinct cut and feel of Enma 20 years later just by the steel itself? It was Zoro’s haki but the effect Enma had on Zoro’s haki mirrored Oden because Enma would have had a similar effect on Oden’s haki.

Swordsman grow stronger with new swords but that is after they master the sword. That comes from properly controlling the sword. If the user cuts too little or too much with the new sword they haven't mastered. Zoro hasn't fully mastered enma. He is stronger with enma then he was when he first obtained it but still has ways to go. Remembering, what true makes swordsman strong is their ability to cut what they want to or not cut.

While you are absolutely correct on the need to master a sword before unlocking its full potential, we have seen concrete evidence that different swords can provide more raw power before they have been mastered.

Just because Zoro hadn’t mastered it doesn’t change that it provided a boost in raw power. It just meant that it was also coming with some negative side effects until he fully got it under control. It actually mirrors Enma’s first big use exactly by creating an attack more powerful than Zoro could have provided without it, yet missing.

The reason some believe Zoro can't do much to Kaido without enma is because they fail to understand ryu/haki is the key to cutting/hurting Kaido, not enma.

Are you saying that Zoro cannot use ACoA without Enma? Because I don’t believe that to be true at all. Zoro’s other swords still appear to be able to cut Kaido and even Killer appears to have cut Kaido without using a sonic attack.

Kaido said well done after and didn’t single Zoro out. Which he should have if Killer didn’t manage to cut him at all.

 

[U c 4 up da idly]

Enma either drains your haki like when Zoro first tested it out or you master it which gives you complete control over how much haki you draw out without that control Enma is just a piece of junk, it's the main reason the scabbards decided to refrain from going anywhere near it. It's not letting Zoro have access to more haki he is the one controlling his haki output
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That is exactly what has been spouted nonstop about Enma since the roof top fights started lmao where were you.
What you are saying sounds like a f1 driver getting a different car with the same speed quality and then claiming that driver got a better car when he wins the race

Not on this forum, stop using your truama from other experiences to justify putting words in my mouth on how enma was doing anything.

No the accurate version is if the f1 driver gets a new car and masters it he will be faster. It's not complex Zoro says once he's gotten used to the sword he will be stronger. We see Zoro training with the sword before the raid.

 

[mly90]

Then why did Big Mom point out the sword? If it had literally nothing to do with Enma then why would the sword itself have been notable? Why didn’t she say swordsman if it was strictly due to what Zoro could do regardless solely from his emotions?

Because it was the sword Zoro choose to perform his attack, great grade blades are not your average swords this becomes more apparaent in the hand of a great swordsman. Does she really need to mention Zoro when we see clearly in the panel he is the one performing the attack later on she did say they underestimated them including Zoro, when she could have said "that sword" sticking to her earlier comments. So the swordsman was not ignored by Big mom, just like she credited Zoro for cutting Kaido with his tatsumaki the only difference being Zoro used all his swords and didn't focus most of his haki into a single blade like he did when he performed his hiryu kaen attack.

 

[Ryuarashi]

Because you attribute the things he did to Enma which is utter bs i still disagree about it being power up. Unless i was dreaming and Zoro got his hands Yoru Shodai kitetsu or Whitebeards Murakumogiri these are the only blades i consider a powerup to Shusui and Wado.

Despite even Big Mom and Kaido being warey of the sword? what more do you need?