[FNZ] Salem of Lies Round 09: Throne of Lies

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So really, how the hell do you tell which king is which? Lynch and hope for the best? lol.
I have no clue. But I think she does have to hint it to her potential evil teammates, if she is a bad king. Something only they would know. There is a 35% chance she is evil, methinks
I just subbed in and didnt read any posts but i have a question

Did you guys deduce which type of king Kiwi is?
Welcome! Another Serb? 😎

No. And I didn’t really find any logic faults. But she is too smart to write off.
 
I’ll take a wild guess and say his personality :yasu:
it isnt
I have played with him
tac got voted out or sussed based on very little mistakes like not reading the intro post closely enough cause people expect that much from a player like him. so him taking the time to "purposefully" type bullshit
is not something I see him doing. he has to be fulfilling some type of requirement. Those who have played with tac last three games know what am talking about.
 
This is the Best Game so far @Dragomir.
Flowers is scum and is somehow thinking this is a good push. IMO, I think her push is weak and for an experienced player it doesn't make sense for her to state such a claim. I suppose she was hoping no one would have looked into her like @Natalija claimed to? But even then—surely spouting out that I belong to a wrong faction would alert the proper investigators of what's wrong. I.E., calling me Unseen if we have Cult (which @NeutralWatcher seems to be suggesting heavily we do) is a horrible move for any scum to pull.
Your behaviour is unusual here for someone that been tried lynching by same Candidtae. Is this your backup defense if Flower turns out townie?

You might have been jailored last night, bt that doesn't town clear you.
if there is a townie who messed up the investigations they probably should claim to avoid a mislynch
that still won't explain Flower blunder.
I think Natalija invest Flower and knew Flower is social/support. Flower behaviour also strange for experience player. She without reason voted TAC and claimed Unseen in this game when it is risky since investigator can say she is lying.

So people assume she is jester. Fool in this game has similar mechanic as jester
It's Risky move bt not something an experienced player can't do. Reading posts it appear she already done so in the past.
In addition to the above, The Fool is in fact a Social/Support role, so it fits.
that make things difficult for us.

Bt i can't shake the feeling that Flower is not fool. Blaming Tac Unseen instead of Cult could be due to D1 and to remain consistent. Without any kills not much had changed since D1 and Since NW didn't objected to DA lynch by coming out a day before, maybe she believed she could turn the tables anf prove NW guilty instead?
And Flower already tried this move as well.
Another lie. I know there is Unseen. NW could only be Paladin if that was a Cult Game, but then he would have clarified that DA couldn't have made a TMI slip last DP because due to no Unseen in the game DA couldn't have had too much information in the first place. But NW didn't do that and due to my role existing he is definitely lying. So there is that.

If there weren't two claims against her, she could have turned this arround. And the objective might also have been to make users claim their Roles.
Now this is from wiki (deceive allows fool to frame result on her)Deceive will make you appear as Killer / Offensive to The Princess, Unseen or as The Assassin to The Sheriff and Cult to The Paladin.
so if she used her ability she would appear scum, bt given she has only 2 shots i can understand if might not have used it and hence Natalija saw her as Support /Social.

So fair chance she is Fool? I will back down for nw.
Unvote
Alright, I have to go offline now. See you guys tomorrow:cheers:
i didn't see a single opinion from you so far this Day phase. Give your opinions and reads on everyone.

Hrm. This is an issue. There is no guarantee that I'm not framed or converted at night or that Nat/NW won't be converted at night. Observer is hopeful but we can't be too reliant on roles we don't know are included, we have 2 Invest claims already after all.

I'd say that anyone we tell Invest to look into will be tampered with before the results come back to town. I also can't promise I'll be town tomorrow, if I'm hit by Cult tonight. It would be a false-clear in that case. Same if you were invest'd. It's best if @NeutralWatcher and @Natalija don't tell us who they invest until we know if there's something like observer out there.
Another preplanned Defense Tac(?). Good Point tho, it's best if Investigators or Role Blocks don't reveal their targets.
@NeutralWatcher @Natalija
after that Cinera because even though I can understand his reasoning, jumping on a lynch train that quick even with claim-counter claim is odd behaviour. Not even waiting for TAC to post.
I think he did make a post that he was still waiting for Tac opinion, tho that post was after he had been pushing the lynch.

And last time he tried pushing a lynch for townie to get Informations, so it's also his Playstyle.
been heavily preoccupied with the flower fiasco
tho kiwi did maintain her vote on me and chrono followed suit.
out of interest
is this chrono's first game as well?
yo dark was out with two votes and I was saved by rng
:choppawhat:
meaning kiwi was convinced of the lynch on me
irc kiwi wasnt my main sus day one but al sama and krog who I eventually voted on . tho if she was convinced of a lynch on me
she hasnt pursued that at all today. interesting .
lanji this redirection is really scummy after Reborn sussing you.

From jailor perspective, imprisoning the most sus player make sense because if that sus player is in prison and no killing
Now, that's really odd.

Anyway, I have a theory.

It's quite weird that no killing happened last night. The game begun with two Unseen/cult members and their maximum strength at a time is limited.

So out of remaining 18 players it's safe to assume that we must be having at least two neutrals and based on past games experience, a killing neutral role is likely. Now, if Cult didn't kill last night and went for convert then also a kill should have taken place but there was no such thing.


Night one is safest to kill for a killer as players hardly have any concrete read yet no kill happened. This means, it's likely that killer took back seat fearing he/she could get investigated or among mod block players one has such role.
good point Reborn. If Cult, or if Unseen recruited member, SK type role would still be killing townies. Unless Tac is the one(Jailored) or someone role blocked em, so my suggestion would be to use the same role block next night, if killing stops, that user is our sus.
something I noticed today. He is asking less questions than per usual, and this is not good at all in my opinion. He usually happened to ask a ton of questions to players, but I don't see it that much so far
I dont remember him asking many questions in last 2 Games.

I find Cinera strong lynch push of Tac suspicious despite claims from other users and so soon in the Day phase. Bt not these reasons.
 
This is the Best Game so far @Dragomir.

Your behaviour is unusual here for someone that been tried lynching by same Candidtae. Is this your backup defense if Flower turns out townie?

You might have been jailored last night, bt that doesn't town clear you.
that still won't explain Flower blunder.
It's Risky move bt not something an experienced player can't do. Reading posts it appear she already done so in the past.
that make things difficult for us.

Bt i can't shake the feeling that Flower is not fool. Blaming Tac Unseen instead of Cult could be due to D1 and to remain consistent. Without any kills not much had changed since D1 and Since NW didn't objected to DA lynch by coming out a day before, maybe she believed she could turn the tables anf prove NW guilty instead?
And Flower already tried this move as well.



If there weren't two claims against her, she could have turned this arround. And the objective might also have been to make users claim their Roles.
so if she used her ability she would appear scum, bt given she has only 2 shots i can understand if might not have used it and hence Natalija saw her as Support /Social.

So fair chance she is Fool? I will back down for nw.
Unvote
i didn't see a single opinion from you so far this Day phase. Give your opinions and reads on everyone.

Another preplanned Defense Tac(?). Good Point tho, it's best if Investigators or Role Blocks don't reveal their targets.
@NeutralWatcher @Natalija

I think he did make a post that he was still waiting for Tac opinion, tho that post was after he had been pushing the lynch.

And last time he tried pushing a lynch for townie to get Informations, so it's also his Playstyle.

lanji this redirection is really scummy after Reborn sussing you.


good point Reborn. If Cult, or if Unseen recruited member, SK type role would still be killing townies. Unless Tac is the one(Jailored) or someone role blocked em, so my suggestion would be to use the same role block next night, if killing stops, that user is our sus.

I dont remember him asking many questions in last 2 Games.

I find Cinera strong lynch push of Tac suspicious despite claims from other users and so soon in the Day phase. Bt not these reasons.
irc reborn didnt sus me exactly but questioned why kiwi and I werent sussing each other .
I explained the whole flower incident had occupied my time. I went back to reread a couple post and sure enough my chances of being lynched yesterday were just as high as dark. we had the same vote count.
kiwi actions arent out of the book yet but even on day one I thought specifically al and krog were more sus. I was more perplexed by kiwi keeping a vote on me yet failing to pursue further today. however seems she wasnt so sure of her vote in the first place.
 

Reborn

Throughout Heaven & Earth,I alone am d Honored One
I don't see Cinera as scum. His act was too risky for scum to pull. His reasoning makes sense but as others pointed out that his act was still suspicious and we can't exclude the possibility of scum making such bold move as well.

And, then there is this post
I still recommend that Role Blockers consider repeating their actions. Unfortunately, we wouldn't know if anyone got converted. I asked @Dragomir, and his reply made it seem like he would not disclose if someone was successfully converted overnight.
This post doesn't seem to be the case of scum....

On the other hand, tac claimed he was jailed. First of all, we don't know there is a prince in this game. But based on game, there is a good chance we have jailor.

Now, if tac really was jailed then that doesn't town clear him. Why?

No killing happened last night. This means no evil faction including cult and Neutral killed last night. Now we assumed that cult went for the convert but can we be sure of that? No.....

and, let's believe cult went for convert then also there is good chance that a neutral killing role existed that could have gone for the kill but that also didn't happen.

And, then tac begun this day with no counter sus on flower someone who literally pushed his case. He directly went against cinera. His posts regarding that looked like well thought out work for some reasons.

Since we have 3 votes on Cinera, one on krog and one on tac and If have to pick one as more suspicious among tac and cinera then I will go with tac.

Vote Lynch TAC
 
I’m sure someone was converted for Cult. There is no way the evil faction sat all night and did nothing. Increasing numbers should be their game play now.
@Reborn your point of defending Cinera by singling out him asking the host and getting no answer says nothing. That could easily be a lie or a tactic. And Dragomir would not answer either way.
I relate to @TheAncientCenturion logic of suspecting Cinera way more than why you seem to suspect him. And this is the third person attacking TAC for no apparent reason, it’s shady. It sounds a lot like you and Cinera are teamed up.
 

Reborn

Throughout Heaven & Earth,I alone am d Honored One
I’m sure someone was converted for Cult. There is no way the evil faction sat all night and did nothing. Increasing numbers should be their game play now.
@Reborn your point of defending Cinera by singling out him asking the host and getting no answer says nothing. That could easily be a lie or a tactic. And Dragomir would not answer either way.
I relate to @TheAncientCenturion logic of suspecting Cinera way more than why you seem to suspect him. And this is the third person attacking TAC for no apparent reason, it’s shady. It sounds a lot like you and Cinera are teamed up.
First of all, you need to chill with sussing people who doesn't go with what you like.

If you don't find tac suspicious then it's your opinion. Just because I felt cinera isn't scum and tac is more likely doesn't make me scum buddying with Cinera.

And, what if cinera doesn't flip scum? Can you take gurantee that cinera is scum? If yes then I will change my vote to Cinera. Can you?
 
Forgive me for not being active, had a really rough day. Finally got a break and coming in to catch up;

First thing- We need to ignore Flower for now. As majority has already pointed it out, it’s too much of a scummy. I don’t think she has given her reasons to go after tAc. I don’t see any point for her to go after TAC. Maybe a fools play.

Second- @Natalija’s gameplay has been consistent. So obviously she is a town. It was DA who was too focused on the game being Unseen based in D1 which led to his mislynch. We should go by her reads on Flower of being Social/Supports.

Third- it’s about Neutral; if he is what he says to be. Then he should have knowledge of DA’s misconceptions from the beginning. Yet he waited for the start of the D2 to come out and say this;

Flower is lying. I know my role so that was why I can say no Unseen is in this game.

Vote Lynch Flower
And still proceeds with this-
I thought DA was scum and I thought by lynching him, we would know if he were Unseen/Cult based on his role.
I’m not saying he is a sus but the inconsistency is too much to be ignored. I’ve yet to see in Cinera’s case though. Many of you seem to suspect him too.
 
N

NeutralWatcher

Forgive me for not being active, had a really rough day. Finally got a break and coming in to catch up;

First thing- We need to ignore Flower for now. As majority has already pointed it out, it’s too much of a scummy. I don’t think she has given her reasons to go after tAc. I don’t see any point for her to go after TAC. Maybe a fools play.

Second- @Natalija’s gameplay has been consistent. So obviously she is a town. It was DA who was too focused on the game being Unseen based in D1 which led to his mislynch. We should go by her reads on Flower of being Social/Supports.

Third- it’s about Neutral; if he is what he says to be. Then he should have knowledge of DA’s misconceptions from the beginning. Yet he waited for the start of the D2 to come out and say this;



And still proceeds with this-


I’m not saying he is a sus but the inconsistency is too much to be ignored. I’ve yet to see in Cinera’s case though. Many of you seem to suspect him too.
Why should I reveal my role early in the game?

There are many ways to know whether we have Unseen or Cult in this game.

I though you as sus because you said "As in Unseen" when Natalija asked about "How many Kills". The fact that DA kept mentioning Unseen led me to believe that DA wanted to misled townie into focusing on Unseen.

Seeing that I thought of DA as scum 100% and if DA was lynched and DA flipped scum, we will know whether we have Unseen/Cult even without me having to reveal my role.
 
First of all, you need to chill with sussing people who doesn't go with what you like.

If you don't find tac suspicious then it's your opinion. Just because I felt cinera isn't scum and tac is more likely doesn't make me scum buddying with Cinera.

And, what if cinera doesn't flip scum? Can you take gurantee that cinera is scum? If yes then I will change my vote to Cinera. Can you?
Erm suspecting is the point of this game, it’s not about “like” or “dislike”. It’s about - what you’re saying is not making much sense.
Of course it’s just my opinion, everything we utter is our personal opinion. Are you irritated because I struck a chord?

I can’t claim anything about Cinera, other than him being suspicious. I can’t say anything for certain about anyone but Flower.
 
N

NeutralWatcher

It's not only about misconception. I thought DA had a slip from these quotes.

Yeah, I understood that, but in terms of how many good players vs how many mafia.

We need to know how many bastards to kill etc.
as in Unseen factions..:smithnie:
Seem like DA knew Unseen was in this game unless DA was scum. That what led me to believe that DA was scum.
 
This is my explanation to Reborn for why I supported the TAC Lynch.




I think his point is that suspecting people for merely disagreeing with you is a bad way to play the game. Apriori, just because someone disagrees with you or is suspicious of you is not alignment indicative. You shouldn't expect such reads to be accurate. It also makes your reads less trustworthy in general if people know that you build Scum reads on such unreliable basis.


I still find TAC suspicious. He was so insistent on reading Flower as not Scum despite her bold push for his Lynch. He went as far as inventing a very contrived case for why she was Town (he did back off after it was revealed that such mechanics do not exist in this game). I can't in good faith permit my Mislynch, so I guess I'll vote TAC to reduce the chances I get Mislynched.

Vote Lynch: TheAncientCenturion.

That said, if I get put on Trial I will Claim.
It’s completely justified to doubt him if I think what he said made no sense. If that will make me look unreliable or antagonistic; I don’t care.

Can I ask what claim means? Second time I’m seeing this, no clue.
 

Reborn

Throughout Heaven & Earth,I alone am d Honored One
Erm suspecting is the point of this game, it’s not about “like” or “dislike”. It’s about - what you’re saying is not making much sense.
Of course it’s just my opinion, everything we utter is our personal opinion. Are you irritated because I struck a chord?

I can’t claim anything about Cinera, other than him being suspicious. I can’t say anything for certain about anyone but Flower.
Yes suspecting is the point of this game and I sus tac more.

If you find this suspicious then it can't be helped.


But I stand with my point - Cinera doesn't give vibe of scum to me especially not cult when we are sussing flower for being a fool. because no cult would act so eagerly to push a case...

He could be Neutral but neutral are lone wolf unlike cult having team members so neutral usually stay low key.

Infact, let's see. Since lynching give us info and you all find cinera sus so let's do that


Unvote
 
Yes suspecting is the point of this game and I sus tac more.

If you find this suspicious then it can't be helped.


But I stand with my point - Cinera doesn't give vibe of scum to me especially not cult when we are sussing flower for being a fool. because no cult would act so eagerly to push a case...

He could be Neutral but neutral are lone wolf unlike cult having team members so neutral usually stay low key.

Infact, let's see. Since lynching give us info and you all find cinera sus so let's do that


Unvote
Hahaha you had a change of heart pretty fast, makes me think I truly struck a chord. :smithnie:
No, nonono. By all means, if you find TAC most suspicious, go for it.
 
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