General & Others The Whitebeard pirates never knew Wano was Kaido’s territory for 20 years

[Dr. Spook]

Honestly, I just find this fucked up really..

I mean.. after 22 years, no fucker in the WBP knew anything?? Doffy knew Kaido was there, marines knew Kaido was there, Big Mom knew Kaido was there... WB is a damn yonko, you would at least expect the dude to keep tabs on other yonko or something.. how the hell didn't he know Kaido was in Wano when literally every fucker did?? WB pirates gotta be some slow ass motherfuckers to only know this now.. smh



Ace was literally there 5 years ago.. He literally told Tama that when he gets a bigger crew, he'll personally go there and make Wano great again... the fuck happened to that?? He literally was part of WB's crew after this - a crew that's powerful as fuck - and is proud of being part of it... Ace respected WB and knew what he was really like... so why didn't Ace bring up the whole Wano thing right there??

It's like dude literally forgot about this shit...



Hell, Izo, ffs... I mean, after 22 years, the guy musta been curious of what Oden's doing... like, dude legit had to bear with Oden's fuckin' tourettes syndrome and him going "Imma open Wano's borders" every 5 god damn seconds... didn't he think of him for one time?? Like "oh, what's my master doing? What's wano like now, with its borders being opened.. how's my sister" etc..

Marco's excuse with all this is just...
I dunno what to fucking say, lol.

WB specifically had a bad feeling about it, and told Ace to let it go, true. But once Ace got captured, what happened? WB basically declared War in tha World and tried to fight tha World Government to get one of his sons back. So why would he not fight one man for murdering his lil brother?

Exactly.. I mean, Whitebeard was known exactly for that...
Buggy even said "never lay a hand on WB's crewmates, coz Whitebeard will fuck you up"...

I mean, what does this make WB? A coward?? who only picks on the li'l guys but doesn't have balls to stand to the big guy?? That ain't WB at all... dude literally declared war to get Ace back and fucked Akainu up when he watched the dude kill Ace, even when his life got threatened..

Dude had a bad feeling of Thatch's murder by Teach, but he still wanted to avenge Thatch... Shanks literally tried to convince the guy to not let Ace go after him, but WB didn't take that shit..

Why is Whitebeard obligated to check or do anything about Wano?? It's none of his business, even if he knew about Oden's death.

-> Oden left the crew
-> He never cameback and did his own thing.. he was supposed to come back.. but nah he went to Wano instead.. So the whole "WB didn't help his crewmate" crap falls apart here.
-> Whitebeard was building up his armada and such, ain't got time to be worrying about what Oden is potentially doing.

-> If Whitebeard goes to war with Kaido post-Oden's death.. why would he go to war for it, when the war result in the deaths of his sons, for a Nation he has no relations with...

At this point he was on his own, Whitebeard had other things to worry about. Whitebeard went to rescue Ace.. because he was in his crew when it happened. They're pirates, they're not saints bruh lol.

And not sure why people are making Whitebeard out to be this charity worker.. when the dude was a key member of the most evil pirates out there, ROCKS.. lmao.

This is the thing... Compared to other pirates out there, Whitebeard IS a saint.. There's no denying that... did you forget that he literally went out of his way to save and protect Fishman Island by making it his turf?? A nation that - like you said - had nothing to do with him??

Did you forget how content people in his territories literally were under WB's protection and how fucking screwed up they felt when they heard news of WB's death?? The guy's a fucking saint I tell you...

And yeah, he was a member of Rox, but he definitely wasn't like them.... I mean, did you literally forget what Whitebeard was?? Did you forget what Kaido told Oden about WB??

Oden left the crew, not sure why people are making this out to be lightly, when we have an emphasis on leaving the crew of a pirate as a huge thing.. with Zoro's emphasis on the meaning of somebody leaving the crew.. Then BM getting angry when Jinbei tried to leave hers.

If he had a grudge against Oden for that, why did he leave the second commander position open for 20+ years?? It legit shows WB still had good vibes with Oden... nothing to do with Zoro's quote at all.. It shows WB still considered Oden as a nakama, and still kept that spot open for him even after all these years.

Hell, even when Oden left, WB returned the stuff Roger gave them to ensure Oden and his family don't starve. I mean, I dunno about you, but this doesn't sound like a captain that doesn't want anything to do with his nakama.. quite the opposite, really... Hell, WB only let Roger "borrow" him for a year..

-> If Whitebeard goes to war with Kaido post-Oden's death.. why would he go to war for it, when the war result in the deaths of his sons, for a Nation he has no relations with...

Do you recall what Buggy said?? He literally said "never lay a hand on Whitebeard's crew, because one thing Whitebeard does not forgive is the death of his crewmates".. Of course WB would have beef.

And with "Wano being a nation he has no relations with", you're wrong here... Wano has everything to do with WB. Why? It's Izo's and Oden's nation, ffs... It's a place Izo belongs to and cherishes... WB had a good enough heart to actually protect Wano for crying out loud... like he did with FM etc... Whitebeard literally protected countries in the NW that were on the verge of getting fucked over..

WB is literally the type of guy to do that, and ask nothing in return...

 

[critical mindset]

Kaido = too strong as he also has back up from the lurking legend who is a background figure operating from the shadows, as Hawkins comments “do you know who actually controls this country from the shadows”

Spoiler

obviously referring to someone other than Kaido, and this is to be directly contrasted with Kaido As both Zoro points out Hawkins is working for Kaido and Luffy jumps to the conclusion he is talking about Kaido, yet the distinction here is clear with the highlighted remark, that it is not Kaido. To make the point even clearer Luffy says “I actually don’t know either”

Spoiler

I’d say Shiki is the guy as chapter 0 is canon with him planning on something big that will shock the world, same as Kaido. In the movie he worked on animal experimentation working on their lineage factor, so it will have some basis in the reality of what he will try to achieve canonically.

Kaido + Shiki = too much to handle. This invasion will see some major upsets for Kaido when he reveals who he is working with, ie the other members of the Rocks that are in hiding along with Shiki but are really the ones controlling alongside Kaido (same way that Imu is the one who is actually in charge of WG)

 

[Owl Ki]

Here is my take on this issue. Wano is an isolation country. Unless you go there, you will not know what is going on.

This is insane. People are still trying to justify that WB should have known Oden had died at the hands of Kaido. People don't want to accept the fact that Wano is an isolated country. Information does not leave its borders.

Oden’s life goal was to open Wano’s borders to end said isolation. Oden was quite open about this.

You do not think that anyone would find it suspicious that Oden, the Shogun, failed to do this in over 20 years? The fact that Wano is still isolated should ring alarm bells in of itself.

For all we know, WB may have thought that Oden was in good standings with Kaido.

Whitebeard knows that would never happen.

Spoiler

After Oden found the One Piece with Rogers, he went back to Wano where Kaido had set up shop as his territory. And from what I have surmised, the Emperors respected each others territory.

Whitebeard sure did not respect World Government territory when they captured Ace.

As for Ace, his small crew washed up on a small village of hungry people. Oden has been dead for 20 years. There was no reason for Oden's name to come up. The villagers mind was on Kaido, the Shogun, and their hunger.

Said villagers are not going to talk about Kaido or Orochi or the reason that they are all destitute peasants?

Ace is also never going to talk about his adventures? The fact he has been to Wano? That Kaido rules it? Nobody on the WBP crew is going to mention Wano and make Ace remember?

What Marco said made sense. If WB knew Kaido had a hand in killing his "brother", WB would have sailed right into Wano looking for vengeance.

Yes Oden died, but how would WB know about that?

If they knew Kaido was in charge of Wano then it should have been obvious what happened. If they did not know then they should have been highly suspicious of the fact that Oden, a progressive ruler that is a man who always does as he pleases, had somehow failed to accomplish his life goal of making Wano an open country for 20+ years. Especially since Ace had actually been there within the last five years.

If people want to be mad about WB not avenging Oden's death, which is never implied WB knew of, then Shanks should be excoriated too.

Good idea. We should rake that fair weather feck over the coals too.
Edit: An image needed fixing.

 

[MD Zolo]

Good idea. We should rake that fair weather feck over the coals too.

We should. But the bigger burden falls on WB. He was the WSM afterall.

Shanks was very young when all of this happened. And then he was busy recruiting people till 13 years ago. He only came to be known as a Yonkou six years ago. So, he gets some slack.

 

[Owl Ki]

This scene did not age well.

Spoiler

 

[critical mindset]

This scene did not age well.

Spoiler

Yeah but it’s clear from the panel with Hawkins that it is someone other than Kaido who is really ruling the country. Oda highlights that really well with Luffy’s comments directly afterwards. If anything it goes to show WB has a good enough intel to know that’s what’s really going on there. That’s the difference, where here he is attacking scrubs, but people lurking in the shadows of Wano are of a different breed altogether

 

[Owl Ki]

Yeah but it’s clear from the panel with Hawkins that it is someone other than Kaido who is really ruling the country. Oda highlights that really well with Luffy’s comments directly afterwards. If anything it goes to show WB has a good enough intel to know that’s what’s really going on there. That’s the difference, where here he is attacking scrubs, but people lurking in the shadows of Wano are of a different breed altogether

So Whitebeard has good enough intel to know that Shiki is hiding in Wano but not good enough intel to know “how bad” the situation of Wano is? Cause sneaky individuals that no one has seen for over two decades are easier to find than industrial scale gulags?

Why would Whitebeard even care if Shiki (or anyone else) was there anyway? The bloke was willing to take on the entire of Marineford including the Marines’ best (e.g. Akainu, Kizaru, Aokiji, Sengoku and Garp) after unhooking himself off of life support.

 

[Constantine]

This scene did not age well.

Spoiler

Which chapter is this?

 

[critical mindset]

Which chapter is this?

chapter 645 I beleive, right before Luffy pummels down Hody Jones and Noah with Elephant Gun

 

[Constantine]

What is the reference? Which old friend is he talking about?

 

[critical mindset]

So Whitebeard has good enough intel to know that Shiki is hiding in Wano but not good enough intel to know “how bad” the situation of Wano is? Cause sneaky individuals that no one has seen for over two decades are easier to find than industrial scale gulags?

Why would Whitebeard even care if Shiki (or anyone else) was there anyway? The bloke was willing to take on the entire of Marineford including the Marines’ best (e.g. Akainu, Kizaru, Aokiji, Sengoku and Garp) after unhooking himself off of life support.

Because Oden is already dead and the damage is already done. Even if they went to Wano to take revenge, it would result in a bloobath and it's not bringing back Oden either way. It would also upset the balance of power, only giving the WG a bigger upper hand. If Oden was being held captive and threatened to be executed, then they'd be on their way to save him. Now that he is dead, what's the point? Saving Wano, but at the expense of their own crew. Don't think they would at that point in the story when the WB crew were jsut young bucks and rookies vs Shiki and his fellow cronies. That makes no sense, people. With Ace he was still alive and they threatened to execute him, that's the difference. Oden was already dead.

What Marco didn't know is the extent of the toll it has taken on Wano, the adverse affects of the industrial poisoning of the country which took new epic proprotions with Caesar's smile development and the weapons development.

 

[Sanji D Cook]

Oden’s life goal was to open Wano’s borders to end said isolation. Oden was quite open about this.

You do not think that anyone would find it suspicious that Oden, the Shogun, failed to do this in over 20 years? The fact that Wano is still isolated should ring alarm bells in of itself.

Oden was never the Shogun. Also it is not a pirates duty to check on someone who left there crew

Whitebeard knows that would never happen.

Spoiler

And yet Oden followed Whitebeard and Roger. And when Oden got back to Wano he was forcefully bending the knee to Kaido and the Shogun.

Whitebeard sure did not respect World Government territory when they captured Ace.

This was in the newspaper all around the world. How could WB not know about this and react.

Said villagers are not going to talk about Kaido or Orochi or the reason that they are all destitute peasants?

I see you did not mention Oden, who was dead for 20 years. You just prove my point why Oden's name would not come up when Ace washed up on a small village in Wano.

Ace is also never going to talk about his adventures? The fact he has been to Wano? That Kaido rules it? Nobody on the WBP crew is going to mention Wano and make Ace remember?

Make Ace remember what exactly??? That a former WB pirate who then sailed with the Rogers pirates is from Wano.

If they knew Kaido was in charge of Wano then it should have been obvious what happened. If they did not know then they should have been highly suspicious of the fact that Oden, a progressive ruler that is a man who always does as he pleases, had somehow failed to accomplish his life goal of making Wano an open country for 20+ years. Especially since Ace had actually been there within the last five years.

Again, Oden was never the Shogun. Just because his dream was to open the borders of Wano and it did not happen does not means WB should just go a check on him. WB is a pirate, not a social worker checking in a friend that left his crew to sail with his rival. And there is nothing to suggest that Kaido kill Oden from an outside point of view. Oden could have change his mind about the outside view and WB would not even know about because Oden left his crew to sail with Roger.

 

[Kurodiamondo]

I think the situation was like this

WBP already knew that oden is dead. It's probably like thatch situation. WB choose to not endanger his living families over a dead crew.

And dont forget, kaido has challenged marine and yonko alone and he is beaten 7 times. Everyone failed to kill him. So it's useless to fight kaido


The only thing that WBP does not know is that wano become such a broken country with the jerk orochi as a shogun.

Then why now? I think neko/inu convinced marco and other about 20 years prophecy from toki and believe since they knew toki's power

 

[Lion of Olympus]

Holy shit I didn’t even realize this.
Imagine if Luffy didn’t know about Ace’s execution because he didn’t read a newspaper. Would he never know that Ace died? Lol

 

[Dark Hound]

Ace, a Whitebeard Pirate Division Commander, was literally in Wano within the last few years.

How could the Whitebeard Pirates not know how bad the situation was when one of their own high ranking crew members personally witnessed the severity of the situation first hand?

Because Oda is tired lmao

Post automatically merged: Jun 13, 2020

The problem with WB Pirates is Izo. Didn't that **** give a shit about his homeland which stands in the middle of New World right next to him?

AND HE DIDNt CARE ABOUT KIKU ????

 

[Jiihad]

It’s not that he had a bad feeling about it, that’s not what I was getting at. The conflict was between Teach and Thatch. The bad feeling is one thing, but what I was trying to point out was that both Teach and Thatch were family, and he didn’t really make a move until family was only on one side (Ace as family, Marines not). With Wano, Whitebeard could have seen an issue of Oden (family), Kaido (family), and potentially Big Mom (family).

......Except Linlin, Kaidou and Oden aren’t family lmfao. And WB knows that, considering that he Linlin and Kaidou spent their youth in tha Rox ship. So he knows them better than most people do. So that excuse doesn’t really fly

Secondly, like others have mentioned in this thread. Ace was in Wano very recently, and he met Tama and said when he gets a bigger crew he would come back and make Wano great again. Uhmm, literally after leaving Wano he joins tha WBP’s, you know one of tha 4 strongest crews in existence. And yet Ace still didn’t say shit? Someway somehow WBwas still unaware of how bad it actually was. Shit Ace even told Oara JR that he learned how to make hats in Wano lmfao

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Kaido = too strong as he also has back up from the lurking legend who is a background figure operating from the shadows, as Hawkins comments “do you know who actually controls this country from the shadows”

I've never heard this theory before

Post automatically merged: Jun 13, 2020

What Marco didn't know is the extent of the toll it has taken on Wano, the adverse affects of the industrial poisoning of the country which took new epic proprotions with Caesar's smile development and the weapons development.

Marco doesn't know about the industrial whatever

He's talking about oden dying. He expected oden to be alive and living with kaido for 20 years of harmony

 

[Charlotte Horchata]

Kaido = too strong as he also has back up from the lurking legend who is a background figure operating from the shadows, as Hawkins comments “do you know who actually controls this country from the shadows”

Spoiler

obviously referring to someone other than Kaido, and this is to be directly contrasted with Kaido As both Zoro points out Hawkins is working for Kaido and Luffy jumps to the conclusion he is talking about Kaido, yet the distinction here is clear with the highlighted remark, that it is not Kaido. To make the point even clearer Luffy says “I actually don’t know either”

Spoiler

I’d say Shiki is the guy as chapter 0 is canon with him planning on something big that will shock the world, same as Kaido. In the movie he worked on animal experimentation working on their lineage factor, so it will have some basis in the reality of what he will try to achieve canonically.

Kaido + Shiki = too much to handle. This invasion will see some major upsets for Kaido when he reveals who he is working with, ie the other members of the Rocks that are in hiding along with Shiki but are really the ones controlling alongside Kaido (same way that Imu is the one who is actually in charge of WG)

Unlikely. The one who seems to control Wano is Orochi. The one controlling it from the shadows is Kaido. Hawkins asks them whether or not they know who they're actually messing with by going on vacation there (an emperor). Then Zoro lies because they were told not to expose the plan (which isn't a vacation, precisely), Luffy yells it's Kaido, Zoro reminds him that Kin'emon wanted to keep it secret and Luffy immediately tries to cover his mistake by correcting that he "actually don't know either". I think you're just reading too much into it.

 

[critical mindset]

Unlikely. The one who seems to control Wano is Orochi. The one controlling it from the shadows is Kaido. Hawkins asks them whether or not they know who they're actually messing with by going on vacation there (an emperor). Then Zoro lies because they were told not to expose the plan (which isn't a vacation, precisely), Luffy yells it's Kaido, Zoro reminds him that Kin'emon wanted to keep it secret and Luffy immediately tries to cover his mistake by correcting that he "actually don't know either". I think you're just reading too much into it.

Yeah I know that much, but Oda is implicitly telling us something here with the underlining of actually, which in and if itself is unnecessary if there is no point to be had here, so there is a little scene there where they cover up (what exactly lol, everyone knows Kaido is running that country) so yeah reading the context at face value they cover up and Hawkins is talking about Kaido, but the underlying and hidden message here by Oda is that that someone who operates from the shadows is actually someone they don’t know. Gotta read between the lines

 

[Dark Hound]

Why is Whitebeard obligated to check or do anything about Wano?? It's none of his business, even if he knew about Oden's death.

-> Oden left the crew
-> He never cameback and did his own thing.. he was supposed to come back.. but nah he went to Wano instead.. So the whole "WB didn't help his crewmate" crap falls apart here.
-> Whitebeard was building up his armada and such, ain't got time to be worrying about what Oden is potentially doing.
-> If Whitebeard goes to war with Kaido post-Oden's death.. why would he go to war for it, when the war result in the deaths of his sons, for a Nation he has no relations with...

At this point he was on his own, Whitebeard had other things to worry about. Whitebeard went to rescue Ace.. because he was in his crew when it happened. They're pirates, they're not saints bruh lol.


Bruh it's funny you mention the Nakama power.. when everybody here crying about "WB didn't save his Nakama BS BRO!! BS!!".. y'all either want Nakama power or don't give a fuck about it.. can't have it both ways bruh.


Big issue: Ace was part of the crew... Oden was not.. he left and joined the Roger Pirates.. then instead of coming back and even seeing Whitebeard with Roger.. he went straight to Wano.

Oden left the crew, not sure why people are making this out to be lightly, when we have an emphasis on leaving the crew of a pirate as a huge thing.. with Zoro's emphasis on the meaning of somebody leaving the crew.. Then BM getting angry when Jinbei tried to leave hers.

And not sure why people are making Whitebeard out to be this charity worker.. when the dude was a key member of the most evil pirates out there, ROCKS.. lmao.



More than likely he would've found out about the Wano stuff until post-Oden's death, when Kaido actually rose to power. By then, what's the point of Whitebeard going to war with Kaido?
He also didn't go to Marineford to fight the World Government, he went there with the mindset of RESCUE. He never had any intentions of trying to beat them, because he knew he wouldn't be able to.

What about Izo and sister ? He doesn’t give a shit ? Ohhhh