General & Others The Whitebeard pirates never knew Wano was Kaido’s territory for 20 years

[Jew D. Boy]

Hahahahaha, wait, are there people here defending WB’s inaction?? There is not a rational defense in the entirety of human brainpower than would justify a man like Newgate, who only ever yearned for familial love and camaraderie even over the world’s greatest treasures, NOT checking in on someone he considered a brother for more than two whole decades. Remember how pissed he was when Oden wanted to shack up on the Oro Jackson instead? So his response is to never speak to him again? He forgave Squard for literally stabbing him in the chest, don’t tell me he’d start a blood feud over a friend wanting to have another friend.

There’s nothing that can be said that would make WB look less like a dick here, I just don’t see how he let THAT much time go when he presumably wasn’t doing much - Roger was dead, he was called the Strongest Man in the World and Closest to One Piece, yet we only ever saw him sitting and drinking before Marineford - without EVER thinking about why Wano was still shut off from the world or why his very good friend hadn’t achieved his goal yet.

Oden was in a singular position to open the country’s borders both in terms of power and reputation; if I was WB, and I knew that he had gone with Roger as well as the fact that the crew disbanded and went their separate ways, I would assume Oden made it back home safely and take a year or two before I got worried and went to check and see what was going on, since he’d been so adamant about the idea. Just does not make WB look like an effective friend.

 

[critical mindset]

Hahahahaha, wait, are there people here defending WB’s inaction?? There is not a rational defense in the entirety of human brainpower than would justify a man like Newgate, who only ever yearned for familial love and camaraderie even over the world’s greatest treasures, NOT checking in on someone he considered a brother for more than two whole decades. Remember how pissed he was when Oden wanted to shack up on the Oro Jackson instead? So his response is to never speak to him again? He forgave Squard for literally stabbing him in the chest, don’t tell me he’d start a blood feud over a friend wanting to have another friend.

There’s nothing that can be said that would make WB look less like a dick here, I just don’t see how he let THAT much time go when he presumably wasn’t doing much - Roger was dead, he was called the Strongest Man in the World and Closest to One Piece, yet we only ever saw him sitting and drinking before Marineford - without EVER thinking about why Wano was still shut off from the world or why his very good friend hadn’t achieved his goal yet.

Oden was in a singular position to open the country’s borders both in terms of power and reputation; if I was WB, and I knew that he had gone with Roger as well as the fact that the crew disbanded and went their separate ways, I would assume Oden made it back home safely and take a year or two before I got worried and went to check and see what was going on, since he’d been so adamant about the idea. Just does not make WB look like an effective friend.

It would take an estimated 20 years to open up the borders Oden said to Roger. As such the WBP left him to his own devices to get Wano in order with his retainers, and went about doing their own thing. By the time Oden was defeated some 5 odd years afterwards Kaido was already allied with Shiki and the remaining Rocks. No need to fight and get more of your peeps killed when the damage was already done anyway, ie it’s not like saving Ace who was alive and could be rescued. Oden was already dead so why waste your energy when that’s not gonna bring back Oden anyways? Pointless

 

[Jew D. Boy]

It would take an estimated 20 years to open up the borders Oden said to Roger. As such the WBL left him to his own devices to get Wano in order with his retainers, and went about doing their thing. By the time Oden was defeated some 5 years afterwards Kaido was already allied with Shiki and the remaining Rocks. No need to fight and get more of your peeps killed when the damage was already done anyway, ie it’s not like saving Ace who was alive and could be rescued. Oden was already dead so why waste your energy when that’s not gonna bring back Oden anyways? Pointless

I see your point on the timeline, but what does Rocks have to do with anything? Kaido allied with Shiki? My point remains that WB, a guy who valued friendships and emotional bonds above all others, never thought to check in with his former commander even just to see how he was doing?

Oden got back to Wano, spent five years there before his death, and THEN 20 years passed, do I have that right? If so, the promised two decades it would take to open the borders would have elapsed chronologically before chapter 1 of One Piece, meaning WB *still* didn’t think it odd that the country remained isolated. Why???

 

[Buusatan94]

It's really fishy that even Izo didn't even try to check out on his country and little brother for so long.

 

[OEKaneki]

......Except Linlin, Kaidou and Oden aren’t family lmfao. And WB knows that, considering that he Linlin and Kaidou spent their youth in tha Rox ship. So he knows them better than most people do. So that excuse doesn’t really fly

You missed my point again. I was saying Whitebeard may have not acted in the aftermath of Teach and Thatch because both Teach and Thatch were family to him. Whitebeard didn’t just run off on his own after Rox and come up with this idea of family, he had it for a long time, which means it’s safe to assume he thought of them as family too. Kaido was probably family to him. Linlin was probably family to him. Oden was family to him. This is probably why he didn’t intervene any further than he may already have (again, I think there’s a reason that Kaido owes Big Mom a life debt, it’s probably because she saved him from being killed by Whitebeard).

Secondly, like others have mentioned in this thread. Ace was in Wano very recently, and he met Tama and said when he gets a bigger crew he would come back and make Wano great again. Uhmm, literally after leaving Wano he joins tha WBP’s, you know one of tha 4 strongest crews in existence. And yet Ace still didn’t say shit? Someway somehow WBwas still unaware of how bad it actually was. Shit Ace even told Oara JR that he learned how to make hats in Wano lmfao

And like I mentioned in this thread before, Ace only saw a small portion of Wano for a short amount of time. Knowing that a village is starving is different than knowing the entire area is brutally oppressed, that there’s a prison that is managed with slave labor, that rivers and food is poisoned, etc. Ace didn’t see everything and probably didn’t hear everything either.

 

[Finalbeta]

It's really fishy that even Izo didn't even try to check out on his country and little brother for so long.

I wonder what will Oda's explanation be :))

 

[critical mindset]

I see your point on the timeline, but what does Rocks have to do with anything? Kaido allied with Shiki? My point remains that WB, a guy who valued friendships and emotional bonds above all others, never thought to check in with his former commander even just to see how he was doing?

Oden got back to Wano, spent five years there before his death, and THEN 20 years passed, do I have that right? If so, the promised two decades it would take to open the borders would have elapsed chronologically before chapter 1 of One Piece, meaning WB *still* didn’t think it odd that the country remained isolated. Why???

Ace went looking for WB in Wano and this was some 5 odd years ago. By the time they went to check up on Oden he had already kicked the bucket. Yeah it’s likely Kaido has allied with these people, as per Hawkins statement and from the fact that Shiki is making a comeback and was doing experiments on animals manipulating their lineage factor, ie he created mutated animals in the movie. That’s a bit too closely related to the whole thing Kaido is up to, ain’t that right Shiki and former rocks run the country from the shadows. Maybe that’s how you get the numbers being that big, a product of the big plan Shiki had in store for the world.

As such WB had good enough intel to know this much was going on. Messing with Kaido, Shiki and the other rocks, WB and his rookie crew at the time wasnt up for the task.

when Orochi threatens the Cipher Pol guys, he says he has Kaido’s back. It’s more correct if he would’ve said: I’ve got the power of rocks backing me up, but he didn’t say that bc that would be too much at the time and Oda is all about saving that for later acts when the crew gets properly stomped

 

[Jew D. Boy]

Marco's words doesn't imply that they didn't know Kaido was in control of Wano. All it implies is that they didn't know the situation was THAT BAD. We already know that for the most part Yonko's stayed out of eachothers business, outside of small territorial clashes here and there. They don't go to full on war with eachother, because the result would end in both of their downfalls. Whichever side comes out on top, would be so heavily injured, they'd be a prime target for another Yonko or the Marines to swoop in and finish them off. So they keep to themselves for the most part, and don't get involved in eachothers affairs. Wano is so closed off, that it is not surprising that word never reached the outside World as to what was going on there, and the Whitebeard Pirates weren't going to go to Wano because it's Kaido's homebase of operations, and it would have resulted in an immediate war.

I don't understand why this fanbase acts like the Whitebeard Pirates owes Wano something, and should have been checking up on it regularly just because one of its citizens happened to be a member of their crew for a time. The territory belonged to another Yonko, so Whitebeard left it alone. It's as simple as that.

The WBP absolutely owe Wano, and it’s been explained here multiple times why that would be true. If they knew the situation WAS bad, what does it matter the degree to which it was that way? Christ, I didn’t even pick up on that until you said it, but what the fuck, Marco? They KNEW that things were fucked up in their friend’s homeland and didn’t get involved, which totally goes against WB’s entire worldview as we know it. Again, Squard STABBED HIS CAPTAIN THROUGH THE CHEST IN THE MIDDLE OF A WAR, and Whitebeard FORGAVE HIM ON THE SPOT, but they know Oden is in SOME kind of trouble and say “Ehh, he’ll sort it out?” For 20+ years??

“Yonko stay out of each other’s way” also doesn’t hold up - Shanks visiting WB to talk about Blackbeard, both of them getting involved at Marineford, Shanks stopping Kaido from making an appearance, Big Mom confronting Kaido over Luffy...boy, for people who avoid one another, they sure can’t seem to stay away!! Where was that sense of urgency when it came to the Kozuki clan?? Every “territorial” clash was a problem because it could have escalated into a bigger conflict, but in Oden’s case, one of the aggressors committed an act that the other found unforgivable under any circumstances, so a head-on collision between Kaido and WB *should* have been a reasonable expectation based on everything we now know about them.

 

[Dread Pirate]

It's really fishy that even Izo didn't even try to check out on his country and little brother for so long.

its not completely out of the realm of possibility for op charecters to have no interction with there family or home when the go off on an adventure, uffys dad didnt check on him until he left home an was a semi famous pirate after 17yrs and as far as we no yasopp has made no attempt to connect with usopp since he left

 

[Drachenblut]

No matter how I try to see this... the best oda could do was just to ignore this and let the reason unknown why wb ignored oden and wano. At least, we would have thought, there was a reason.

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

The WBP absolutely owe Wano, and it’s been explained here multiple times why that would be true. If they knew the situation WAS bad, what does it matter the degree to which it was that way? Christ, I didn’t even pick up on that until you said it, but what the fuck, Marco? They KNEW that things were fucked up in their friend’s homeland and didn’t get involved, which totally goes against WB’s entire worldview as we know it. Again, Squard STABBED HIS CAPTAIN THROUGH THE CHEST IN THE MIDDLE OF A WAR, and Whitebeard FORGAVE HIM ON THE SPOT, but they know Oden is in SOME kind of trouble and say “Ehh, he’ll sort it out?” For 20+ years??

“Yonko stay out of each other’s way” also doesn’t hold up - Shanks visiting WB to talk about Blackbeard, both of them getting involved at Marineford, Shanks stopping Kaido from making an appearance, Big Mom confronting Kaido over Luffy...boy, for people who avoid one another, they sure can’t seem to stay away!! Where was that sense of urgency when it came to the Kozuki clan?? Every “territorial” clash was a problem because it could have escalated into a bigger conflict, but in Oden’s case, one of the aggressors committed an act that the other found unforgivable under any circumstances, so a head-on collision between Kaido and WB *should* have been a reasonable expectation based on everything we now know about them.

Whitebeard owes revenge against Kaido, for the death of Oden. We know the Whitebeard Pirates have fought the Beast Pirates in the past, as we are told all the Yonko's have engaged Whitebeard in territorial battles. Whitebeard probably got his revenge then by capturing and torturing Kaido, as per Kaido's introduction about being captured and tortured by the Yonko. After Whitebeard had his revenge, he had no obligation to go to Wano and check on the status of the Country.

 

[Jew D. Boy]

Whitebeard owes revenge against Kaido, for the death of Oden. We know the Whitebeard Pirates have fought the Beast Pirates in the past, as we are told all the Yonko's have engaged Whitebeard in territorial battles. Whitebeard probably got his revenge then by capturing and torturing Kaido, as per Kaido's introduction about being captured and tortured by the Yonko. After Whitebeard had his revenge, he had no obligation to go to Wano and check on the status of the Country.

Those dots don’t quite connect the way you’re saying they do...

Spoiler

...and there’s been no evidence of any sort of reprisal against Kaido from WB whatsoever, current storyline or in the past. You’re using straight headcanon on that torture bit, although if true, it would be more in line with Whitebeard’s character than the notion that he did nothing at all.

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

Those dots don’t quite connect the way you’re saying they do...

Spoiler

...and there’s been no evidence of any sort of reprisal against Kaido from WB whatsoever, current storyline or in the past. You’re using straight headcanon on that torture bit, although if true, it would be more in line with Whitebeard’s character than the notion that he did nothing at all.

You're not using the correct panel from chapter 795.

Spoiler

And are you saying we're supposed to believe that over the course of 20 years, and knowing that The Whitebeard Pirates and Beast Pirates have clashed over territory before, that the matter of Oden's death was never once brought up? Seems kind of farfetched if you ask me.

 

[Jew D. Boy]

You're not using the correct panel from chapter 795.

Spoiler

And are you saying we're supposed to believe that over the course of 20 years, and knowing that The Whitebeard Pirates and Beast Pirates have clashed over territory before, that the matter of Oden's death was never once brought up? Seems kind of farfetched if you ask me.

You’re nitpicking, and our panels both say the exact same thing in slightly different words, which is way more vague than the specific example you’ve taken from it. I agree that it would be far fetched to think that WB never heard from Kaido about Oden, but again, doesn’t that make the total lack of evidence suggesting he did something about it - foremost being Marco’s admission this last chapter - suspicious and shitty to you considering what we know about WB?

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

You’re nitpicking, and our panels both say the exact same thing in slightly different words, which is way more vague than the specific example you’ve taken from it. I agree that it would be far fetched to think that WB never heard from Kaido about Oden, but again, doesn’t that make the total lack of evidence suggesting he did something about it - foremost being Marco’s admission this last chapter - suspicious and shitty to you considering what we know about WB?

It's not nitpicking. The panel clearly says that between the Navy and other Yonko's, Kaido has been captured 18 times, and tortured over 1000. We can attribute 9 of those captures to the navy, as the panel states Kaido destroyed 9 prison ships. The other 9 goes to the hands of the Yonko's. Should we divide those 9 up against Shanks and Big Mom, and leave Whitebeard with none?

 

[Jew D. Boy]

It's not nitpicking. The panel clearly says that between the Navy and other Yonko's, Kaido has been captured 18 times, and tortured over 1000. We can attribute 9 of those captures to the navy, as the panel states Kaido destroyed 9 prison ships. The other 9 goes to the hands of the Yonko's. Should we divide those 9 up against Shanks and Big Mom, and leave Whitebeard with none?

Dude, you’re acting like these numbers are perfectly quantifiable just because they were mentioned in passing...first of all, directly underneath your panel (can’t post the image right now), it says he sank nine different prison vessels, no specific wording implies they were all Marine ships. Even if they are, Shanks could have stopped him (already one canon example of that) seven times and Linlin the other two, for all we know. It could have been WB every time, for all we know! So why not have Marco say something along those lines in chapter 982 and clear up the confusion? Instead, we get the implication that they didn’t know anything needed to be done, telling me that they didn’t face Kaido at any point.

 

[Dread Pirate]

Dude, you’re acting like these numbers are perfectly quantifiable just because they were mentioned in passing...first of all, directly underneath your panel (can’t post the image right now), it says he sank nine different prison vessels, no specific wording implies they were all Marine ships. Even if they are, Shanks could have stopped him (already one canon example of that) seven times and Linlin the other two, for all we know. It could have been WB every time, for all we know! So why not have Marco say something along those lines in chapter 982 and clear up the confusion? Instead, we get the implication that they didn’t know anything needed to be done, telling me that they didn’t face Kaido at any point.

if we are being fair here its possible the that whitebeard and co could know oden died by kaidos hand and not know the specifics of what was being done in wano. marcos statement is actually pretty ambiguous and doesnt solidify anything other than him being unaware of events that were unfolding until very recently

 

[Jew D. Boy]

if we are being fair here its possible the that whitebeard and co could know oden died by kaidos hand and not know the specifics of what was being done in wano. marcos statement is actually pretty ambiguous and doesnt solidify anything other than him being unaware of events that were unfolding until very recently

That’s true, but let me ask you this - if Whitebeard heard that his friend Oden had been killed by his former crew mate Kaido, and all of this had taken place in Oden’s country that he was on a mission to integrate into the open world, what about his portrayal in the series leads one to believe that he WOULDN’T attempt to fulfill his deceased comrade’s dream?

If Whitebeard had engaged Kaido and won, Wano could have opened their borders as a protectorate of the man who defeated their oppressor as Yonko are clearly wont to do. Instead, by the manga’s own admission (as far as we know), he never even had anyone go to the island and investigate how things went down. Narratively, that doesn’t fit with his character and how he views his nakama, Teach being the lone exception.

 

[Jiihad]

You missed my point again. I was saying Whitebeard may have not acted in the aftermath of Teach and Thatch because both Teach and Thatch were family to him. Whitebeard didn’t just run off on his own after Rox and come up with this idea of family, he had it for a long time, which means it’s safe to assume he thought of them as family too. Kaido was probably family to him. Linlin was probably family to him. Oden was family to him. This is probably why he didn’t intervene any further than he may already have (again, I think there’s a reason that Kaido owes Big Mom a life debt, it’s probably because she saved him from being killed by Whitebeard).

Still no point to miss, if WB thought of Linlin and Kaidou as family. Why was his lifelong dream to have a family? Furthermore, it’s literally in tha manga said by Sengoku that tha members of Rox didn’t like each other and were constantly fighting and trying to kill each other. Don’t sound like no family to me

And like I mentioned in this thread before, Ace only saw a small portion of Wano for a short amount of time. Knowing that a village is starving is different than knowing the entire area is brutally oppressed, that there’s a prison that is managed with slave labor, that rivers and food is poisoned, etc. Ace didn’t see everything and probably didn’t hear everything either.

It also doesn’t imply the opposite at all lmao. Can you pull up manga panels stating that Ace only saw a tiny portion of Wano? Cause he met Tama, so he saw how shitty her village and life was. In fact it was so shitty, Ade told her that he would return with a bigger crew and make Wano great again iirc. So that directly goes against your claim

 

[Lion of Olympus]

This has to be the biggest plot hole in One Piece