Questions & Mysteries Why do you just assume Sanji defeated Page One?

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I always treated the manga and the anime as two separate universe, Oda himself recently said that he considered his manga and the anime to be two different things. And it wouldn't be the first time Toei rewrote a fight to make the protagonists struggle more than they did in the manga.
Still, we do know Oda sometimes tell some plot points to Toei so they don't mess up. (I remember a SBS were Oda said that he warned Toei to not have Shanks and Buggy call Rayleigh "captain" or more recently that Kyoshiro was a scabbard) It's a very risky move to show Page One clearly tanking Sanji's finisher when the manga left it open ended so either
1)Toei is even more stupid than usual
2)Oda/his editor told them to not add filler of Sanji finishing Page One because he survived the encounter and is is going to fight later in the arc

 

[Kejon]

)Oda/his editor told them to not add filler of Sanji finishing Page One because he survived the encounter and is is going to fight later in the arc

That makes the most sense and is probably what happened.

 

[Garp the Fist]

Really?
Sanji one shoted Raisin in the manga and we never saw him again in the Arc. In the Anime he came Right back after he got kicked into the tower - without any visible Damage - and started Fighting Niji. Or are you also gonna say ''there was no proof of him being defeated''?

It was said that Oda sees the Manga and Anime as 2 different things. So yeah, the Manga is canon and the Anime is not.

Sanji said he would take care of him quickly and reduce the enemy's Forces. He also did it to safe the people and the City.
We saw Sanji completely dominating P1 in this fight.
If P1 wasn't deafeted he would stil be wreaking the City and we would have seen him already with Drake and Hawkins. And not to mention, this whole fight would be pointless.

I think it's very disingenuous to compare Sanji vs Raisin to Sanji vs Page One.

Raisin was a nobody in the BM pirates who got swatted aside with ease, in one page. He was in the Enraged Army and Yonji considered Mont D'or, Amande and freaking Bobbin to be more worthy than mention than him. He wasn't even a minister. Him showing up again changes nothing really.

Page One, though, Page One is one of Kaido's main crew. Like Daifuku and Oven. Sanji supposedly beating him was meant to be a big deal because of that, such a big deal that it's the first time Sanji uses his biggest power up in the series ever. The assumption we then made, that Sanji beat him with relative ease, was meant to show that yeah, he's ready for the big boys like the Calamities.

So the anime taking it upon themselves to show that actually, Sanji was nowhere near as effective as we thought he would have been- yes, that changes things in a way that Raisin still kicking around didn't. We thought Sanji had taken out one of Kaido's six middle of the rank officers with ease. This apparently isn't so, and that's a big move for Toei to make. People watching the anime now expect Page One to continue to play a part in events. That was not the case for manga only readers beforehand.

 

[Hiragaro]

Raisin was a nobody in the BM pirates who got swatted aside with ease, in one page. He was in the Enraged Army and Yonji considered Mont D'or, Amande and freaking Bobbin to be more worthy than mention than him. He wasn't even a minister. Him showing up again changes nothing really.

How does this matter? lol
You said the anime rarely would do something like that. And i brought up the example with Raisin. It doesn't matter if he was ''just a minister'' or a Veteran - that is not the Point here. The Anime changed the outcome of a fight. He was defeated in the manga, but the anime changed it and brought him back. Raisin being actualy weaker than a Veteran and stil come back is even more ridiculous. What does it say to the only Anime watcher? Sanji can't even beat someone like Raisin with such a kick?

There are also example with Pekoms, where in the manga it was said that he can't Control his Sulong form, but the Anime did the exact opposide. Pekoms even knocked Sanji out with 1 hit in the anime lol.

Not sure how you didn't understand my comment...
The point was to show you, that Toei does change things on their own contradicting the manga. Saying that Oda might gave Toei intel of the outcome is just a theory with no proof. The example with Raisin and Pekoms Shows exactly that Toei does change things on their own.

I edit this later on in my previous comment:
Sanji fought him close to the Castle and we had multiple Panel where we could see the City and there was no ''explosions/destruction'' going on - so the fight was already over at this point.

 

[CbShadow]

The anime cause more confusion.

In the manga nobody can say if Page One was defeated. All we know is the RS served its purpose. It allowed Sanji to fight PO and stop him from destroying the town (I know the fight actually caused more destruction) save the citizens while at the same time hide his identity. Technically, Sanji didn't need to beat page one to achieve that. so far he hasn't had to have a reason to reappear in the manga.

What's interesting is, in the anime they had PO receive very little damage from Sanji's strongest attack and stand up after the attack. I figured PO would at least got up and then fell down or something like that. Nope, I was wrong.

If the anime is hinting Sanji didn't defeat PO it could be beneficial. It could have forced Sanji to spend the last week training, mastering the suit, and working on a way to make his attacks stronger and/or deadly so he can damage and beat dragon type zoans.

If Sanji is going to fight and beat Queen he will need more.

 

[BossYimz]

Let us think about this and analysis. Let's assume Sanji did indeed defeat P1:

• What does Toei have to gain by completly chaning the outcome of the fight?

Toei have more to lose than gain by going counter to what Oda want. They will lose fan trust, whereby some fan will completely boycott the anime
Toei make a lot of money from One piece. Why go out of their way to damage their own brand, One piece anime brand and damage their money printing machine

• Has there been a precident in the 925 episodes of Toei ever changing the outcome of the fight?

If Toei has never before changed the outcome of a fight and make it opposite of what happened in the manga in the 20 years of animating One piece and over 920 episodes of One piece, why start now and with a fight where Sanji was showcasing a new power up


I just can't see the reason why Toei would go out of their way to change the outcome of a fight. They normally add fillers, change the order of things but never have I seen them completely change the outcome of the fight. Something that can be disproven later on.

 

[Garp the Fist]

How does this matter? lol

It matters because Raisin getting back up changed absolutely nothing about the arc. He was a nobody in the Big Mom Pirates, it was the very end of WCI and didn't effect the arc in the slightest. It's the same with Pekoms. Toei did not change the end result that we got in the manga- Pekoms left behind ar the mercy of the BM Pirates. It expanded his fight, but that's it.

This Page One situation is clearly very different. We never got an end to that fight in the manga for one thing. We have no confirmation that Toei have actually changed things, because we never actually saw Sanji beat him, we just assumed he did. And Page One, if the anime is correct, is now expected to play a part in the Onigashima war, because he's a Tobi Rokko and an actual important part of Kaido's crew, unlike Raisin.

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

It matters because Raisin getting back up changed absolutely nothing about the arc. He was a nobody in the Big Mom Pirates, it was the very end of WCI and didn't effect the arc in the slightest. It's the same with Pekoms. Toei did not change the end result that we got in the manga- Pekoms left behind ar the mercy of the BM Pirates. It expanded his fight, but that's it.

This Page One situation is clearly very different. We never got an end to that fight in the manga for one thing. We have no confirmation that Toei have actually changed things, because we never actually saw Sanji beat him, we just assumed he did. And Page One, if the anime is correct, is now expected to play a part in the Onigashima war, because he's a Tobi Rokko and an actual important part of Kaido's crew, unlike Raisin.

How does the ending of the manga chapter and the anime episode differ?

 

[Garp the Fist]

How does the ending of the manga chapter and the anime episode differ?

I never said that the anime changed anything. In fact I said the opposite

We have no confirmation that Toei have actually changed things, because we never actually saw Sanji beat him, we just assumed he did.

What I'm saying is the assumption that nearly everyone, including myself, made, about the open-ended manga, was that Sanji beat Page One. He said he was going to take away one of their main fighters for the final war. He brought out his big new power up. The expectation was that he won with some ease.

The anime though- barring an extended fight next week or something like that- has shown otherwise. They have shown the ending of the fight, and that ending is that Page One is still very capable of fighting.

And this is, as far as I know, not being a regular anime watcher, an extremely unusual occurance. The anime expands on fights, but it does not change the outcome.

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

I never said that the anime changed anything. In fact I said the opposite



What I'm saying is the assumption that nearly everyone, including myself, made, about the open-ended manga, was that Sanji beat Page One. He said he was going to take away one of their main fighters for the final war. He brought out his big new power up. The expectation was that he won with some ease.

The anime though- barring an extended fight next week or something like that- has shown otherwise. They have shown the ending of the fight, and that ending is that Page One is still very capable of fighting.

And this is, as far as I know, not being a regular anime watcher, an extremely unusual occurance. The anime expands on fights, but it does not change the outcome.

But the anime still did not change anything except extending.
Sanji was superior, Page One was screaming, only thing different is it ended with Sanji preparing to attack instead of attacking.
The manga only created the impression because we cut quickly awayy which we do not have now, but also because of sanjis expressed goal to take him out plus his attitude when we saw him again.

 

[Un-amed]

The anime cause more confusion.

In the manga nobody can say if Page One was defeated. All we know is the RS served its purpose. It allowed Sanji to fight PO and stop him from destroying the town (I know the fight actually caused more destruction) save the citizens while at the same time hide his identity. Technically, Sanji didn't need to beat page one to achieve that. so far he hasn't had to have a reason to reappear in the manga.

What's interesting is, in the anime they had PO receive very little damage from Sanji's strongest attack and stand up after the attack. I figured PO would at least got up and then fell down or something like that. Nope, I was wrong.

If the anime is hinting Sanji didn't defeat PO it could be beneficial. It could have forced Sanji to spend the last week training, mastering the suit, and working on a way to make his attacks stronger and/or deadly so he can damage and beat dragon type zoans.

If Sanji is going to fight and beat Queen he will need more.

If that's the case, i will have to apologize XD

 

[Garp the Fist]

But the anime still did not change anything except extending.
Sanji was superior, Page One was screaming, only thing different is it ended with Sanji preparing to attack instead of attacking.
The manga only created the impression because we cut quickly awayy which we do not have now, but also because of sanjis expressed goal to take him out plus his attitude when we saw him again.

Let me see if I've got your argument right, because I think we're saying basically the same thing.

Are you saying
-the last scene in the manga, of Sanji attacking in the distance while Page One screams
is the same as
-the scene we see in the anime, where Sanji lands O-Soba Shooting Star or whatever he called it on him?

And it's just a matter of perspective really, with the anime showing up close what the manga only hinted had happened in the distance?

If so, yeah, I can agree with that.

And what I'm then saying is that because of that, the majority of people were wrong. Sanji didn't beat Page One. Page One is still going to be fighting in the war.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

On the bright side, if Page1 could really shrug off Raid Suit Sanji, he's officially > all BM Veterans.

 

[Albino 👑]

I don't understand the point of sanji not beating him if almost all of us agree sanji was significantly stronger
And legit has a shot against queen

Even some "zoro fans" making a big deal of him not beating page think hell solo queen

 

[Albino 👑]

On the bright side, if Page1 could really shrug off Raid Suit Sanji, he's officially > all BM Veterans.

Page vs kamazou

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Page vs kamazou

Page1 has always won — this isn't the thread for it though.

 

[Garp the Fist]

It's always a fine line to walk.

Page One in the manga just sort of existed. He never seemed partucalry impressive or unimpressive.

Page One in the anime seems much more like a tank. But the cost of that is that Sanji's big power up (and it can't be emphasised enough how huge, narratively, this power up for Sanji is) came across a little bit lacklustre. To me, at any rate. When a character gets a huge power up like that and talks about how he's going to beat up a character so bad he's not even going to be a factor in a war two weeks away, and then fails to do it- not a great look.

 

[Albino 👑]

Page1 has always won — this isn't the thread for it though.

Really?

Also if we agree that page one is undefeated does that mean sanji moves at the speed of light like kizaru

 

[Chrono]

It's always a fine line to walk.

Page One in the manga just sort of existed. He never seemed partucalry impressive or unimpressive.

Page One in the anime seems much more like a tank. But the cost of that is that Sanji's big power up (and it can't be emphasised enough how huge, narratively, this power up for Sanji is) came across a little bit lacklustre. To me, at any rate. When a character gets a huge power up like that and talks about how he's going to beat up a character so bad he's not even going to be a factor in a war two weeks away, and then fails to do it- not a great look.

Doesnt matter this is all filler. Never happened.

 

[Hiragaro]

It matters because Raisin getting back up changed absolutely nothing about the arc. He was a nobody in the Big Mom Pirates, it was the very end of WCI and didn't effect the arc in the slightest. It's the same with Pekoms. Toei did not change the end result that we got in the manga- Pekoms left behind ar the mercy of the BM Pirates. It expanded his fight, but that's it.

This Page One situation is clearly very different. We never got an end to that fight in the manga for one thing. We have no confirmation that Toei have actually changed things, because we never actually saw Sanji beat him, we just assumed he did. And Page One, if the anime is correct, is now expected to play a part in the Onigashima war, because he's a Tobi Rokko and an actual important part of Kaido's crew, unlike Raisin.

And how is P1 playing an important role in the Arc? lol
Because he is strong? Well guess what, just because someone is strong or has a nice rank, doesn't mean they are important to the Story or will have any Impact. Smoothy and Compote as an example.
So what Purpose would P1 have in Onigashima? We have stil 4 Tobbi roppo more to get introduced and then the numbers, probably up to 10 of them. You think everyone of them will have an Impact on the Arc? Highly doubt that.
P1 was not important to the Story what so ever. His whole Purpose was to be the punchingbag for Sanji and Showcase his RS. He disappeared as fast as he appeared. We also already saw his Hybrid Form, which Oda loves to keep hiden until their main/important fights.
He might be in Onigashima, but that doesn't mean he was not defeated, but for the reason that is he a Zoan and a Ancient on top of that - his highly improved Regeneration should get him back on his feet.

How would it even make sense for Sanji not to defeat P1? Sanji wanted to safe the people and the city. So Sanji did 2 kicks and just left?How would that stop P1 from keep destroying the city and endanger the citizen? This is exactly what brought Sanji to P1. If Sanji would just left, he would do the same thing again and try to force Sanji to come back. Or did he just gave up?
He also told Drake and Hawkins his Position so they all met on the same spot. But for whatever reason, we only saw Drake and Hawkins.