Future Events Why I am not Convinced that Luffy Defeats Kaido
Kaido wanted to die after causing the biggest war ever against the WG yonko and probably other top tiers. So he would not be exactly getting the death he wants if he gets killed in Wano. There is nothing glorious about getting taken down as villain who tormented innocent people for decades by young upstart pirates who recently entered the new world
Lmfaoooo it's not hard to understand d sanji.
Roger knew full well in death what he was going to do to the rest of the world with how he died starting the great pirate era.
Whitebeard the same when he reinvigorated it in his death.
Kaido isn't gonna stand there arms in a cross like jesus smiling saying do it zoro
Hes gonna get his head cleaved off in dragon form after he loses EVERYTHING
Roger knew full well in death what he was going to do to the rest of the world with how he died starting the great pirate era.
Whitebeard the same when he reinvigorated it in his death.
Kaido isn't gonna stand there arms in a cross like jesus smiling saying do it zoro
Hes gonna get his head cleaved off in dragon form after he loses EVERYTHING
If Kaido ends up seeing Zoro as the "Monster Samurai" yall be saying he will. Then that means Kaido would be more than happy to die to Zoro.
So now you're saying Kaido doesn't want to die to an opponent in battle ? Again how will Kaido accept death by anyone if he's too scared that the other people would get the praise not him.
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So now you're saying Kaido doesn't want to die to an opponent in battle ? Again how will Kaido accept death by anyone if he's too scared that the other people would get the praise not him.
I don't really understand why you're comparing Zoro besting Kaido to Luffy's allies defeating their antagonist. Zoro isn't an ally of Luffy's, he's Luffy's crewmate. I mean, I don't think the situation is analogous at all; there's no real precedent for Zoro declaring that he shall cut down the arc antagonist. The only opponent that Zoro has ever actively sought out was Mihawk.
I do find this persuasive. We have Luffy declaring that he'll defeat Kaido and Zoro declaring that he'll cut down Kaido. I guess they'll probably both fulfill their declarations. This is why I think Luffy and Zoro landing the final attack is plausible.
I don't have any qualms with this, but in that case, the final attack landed on Kaido would be by Zoro not Luffy.
I wasn't arguing that Zoro would solo Kaido. I was arguing that we wouldn't get Luffy defeating Kaido in a 1 vs 1, and then Zoro kills him when he's already defeated. If Kaido returns to Dragon form and flies up, he's not already defeated.
Zoro cutting down Dragon Kaido after Luffy knocked out Hybrid Kaido is still Zoro landing the final attack on Kaido.
Your scenario does seem to be the most plausible of the concrete ways this could go down. I just don't think agree with describing temporarily knocking out Kaido as "defeating" him.
I do find this persuasive. We have Luffy declaring that he'll defeat Kaido and Zoro declaring that he'll cut down Kaido. I guess they'll probably both fulfill their declarations. This is why I think Luffy and Zoro landing the final attack is plausible.
I don't have any qualms with this, but in that case, the final attack landed on Kaido would be by Zoro not Luffy.
I wasn't arguing that Zoro would solo Kaido. I was arguing that we wouldn't get Luffy defeating Kaido in a 1 vs 1, and then Zoro kills him when he's already defeated. If Kaido returns to Dragon form and flies up, he's not already defeated.
Zoro cutting down Dragon Kaido after Luffy knocked out Hybrid Kaido is still Zoro landing the final attack on Kaido.
Your scenario does seem to be the most plausible of the concrete ways this could go down. I just don't think agree with describing temporarily knocking out Kaido as "defeating" him.
There are three other Yonkou. Luffy doesn't have to surpass each and every Yonkou in direct individual combat in order to surpass the Yonkou and become Pirate King.
Would you consider the below "defeating" Kaido?
@Luffy is the mc: I'm curious on your take as well.
True. Well, fighting him at the best isn't the important part, I was just making too close an analogy to the Katakuri situation. What I really want to see Luffy declare his intent to overcome Kaido in 1 vs 1 combat now.
Kaido wants to die to Oden — Zoro is the next best thing.
Sure, that's the traditional argument, but Wano is not a traditional arc.
Wano is uncharted territory. Were it a traditional arc, Zoro would not have been on the Rooftop and would have instead been fighting King down below.
Would you consider the below "defeating" Kaido?
@Luffy is the mc: I'm curious on your take as well.
True. Well, fighting him at the best isn't the important part, I was just making too close an analogy to the Katakuri situation. What I really want to see Luffy declare his intent to overcome Kaido in 1 vs 1 combat now.
Kaido wants to die to Oden — Zoro is the next best thing.
Sure, that's the traditional argument, but Wano is not a traditional arc.
- Never once before has Zoro declared that he shall cut down the arc antagonist.
- Aside from Mihawk, Zoro hasn't previously sought out any of his arc opponents
- Never once before has Zoro and Luffy faced the arc antagonist together.
Wano is uncharted territory. Were it a traditional arc, Zoro would not have been on the Rooftop and would have instead been fighting King down below.
@HA001 this is for you as well.
I'm going to rip a section from one of my essays, but I think that Kaido specifically wants to die at the hands of the samurai bearing Oden's mantle based on his interaction with the Scabbards:
When the Scabbards first struck Kaido, he sees the visage of Oden:
The scar he recieved from Oden began to throb:
Kaido was astounded and questioned why the Scabbards could pierce him, wondering if they also used Oden's Ryuo:
When the scabbards cut him, he was insulted that they could hurt him — samurai who did not measure up at all to Oden:
Kaido further tells the Scabbards that in them he saw the visage of Kozuki Oden:
As such, he could have let them kill him (fulfilling Oden's will):
With each throb of his scar he remembers Oden:
He boldly declares that they are not Oden, that never again shall a "monster samurai" of his likes appear:
He laments that they don't even have enough power to open up his old scar, concluding that they cannot do it:
(Here, doing it refers to killing him).
Kaido's affront that Samurai that don't measure up to Oden could hurt him, his acceptance of his death when he saw the shade of Oden behind them, his disappointment that they were far too weak — unable to even open up the scar Oden left — and his final proclamation that the Scabbards could not kill him give me the impression that Kaido specifically wants to die at the hands of the Samurai bearing Oden's mantle.
@Garp the Fist: I think his hobby of suicide comes from the emotional scar Oden left on his heart. He wishes Oden had killed him, and began searching for a place to die from then on.
I'm going to rip a section from one of my essays, but I think that Kaido specifically wants to die at the hands of the samurai bearing Oden's mantle based on his interaction with the Scabbards:
When the Scabbards first struck Kaido, he sees the visage of Oden:
The scar he recieved from Oden began to throb:
Kaido was astounded and questioned why the Scabbards could pierce him, wondering if they also used Oden's Ryuo:
When the scabbards cut him, he was insulted that they could hurt him — samurai who did not measure up at all to Oden:
Kaido further tells the Scabbards that in them he saw the visage of Kozuki Oden:
As such, he could have let them kill him (fulfilling Oden's will):
With each throb of his scar he remembers Oden:
He boldly declares that they are not Oden, that never again shall a "monster samurai" of his likes appear:
He laments that they don't even have enough power to open up his old scar, concluding that they cannot do it:
Kaido's affront that Samurai that don't measure up to Oden could hurt him, his acceptance of his death when he saw the shade of Oden behind them, his disappointment that they were far too weak — unable to even open up the scar Oden left — and his final proclamation that the Scabbards could not kill him give me the impression that Kaido specifically wants to die at the hands of the Samurai bearing Oden's mantle.
- He wants to be killed by Oden, and that's why he was so insulted that Samurai that do not measure up to Oden could hurt him
- He wanted to be killed by Oden, and that's why when he saw Oden's shade he could have let them kill him
- He wanted to be killed by Oden, and that's why he was so disappointed that the Scabbards were far too weak
- He wanted to be killed by Oden, and that's why he laments that never again shall a Samurai worthy of bearing Oden's mantle appear before him
@Garp the Fist: I think his hobby of suicide comes from the emotional scar Oden left on his heart. He wishes Oden had killed him, and began searching for a place to die from then on.
Fair enough, they should keep Kaido locked away till he dies of old age. Even tho it is stated in the manga that they captured him 18 times and he escaped. How are they going to keep him locked for so many years? Who knows. But I have a better option. Lock Kaido again (because everyone knows that at the 19th try you succeed for sure) and perform the surgery on Kaido so he isn't able to die from old age neither. There you have, an immortal Kaido that won't fulfill his dream.
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