General & Others Next Strawhat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet
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Okay! First things first. I didn’t say Luffy invites Yamato. I said „Yamato invites herself“. Which she already did. My question to you was: What makes you think that Luffy will refuse her?
My points being:
1) Yamata wants to set sail and travel freely together with Luffy
2) Luffy is someone who encourages people to after what they want
3) Yamato is not an evil character, she is actually good and has already fought side by side with Luffy
4) Luffy exepted Brook when he asked him if he could join. Even though brook declined Luffy’s invitation earlier
5) he alaccepted robin. Who was an enemy for a long time
6) he took Vivi with him even though he hated them earlier for attacking Laboom
So I ask again. What makes you think that Luffy is gonna refuse Yamato when she asks to join him on his travel after they have defeated the Beast pirates?
And don’t come with the argument that the makami is wanos guardian deity. That’s doesn’t mean anything. She was in wano for 20 years and couldn’t guard it from Kaido. Being there doesn’t mean shit. She can still protect wano by going back when they need her.
My points being:
1) Yamata wants to set sail and travel freely together with Luffy
2) Luffy is someone who encourages people to after what they want
3) Yamato is not an evil character, she is actually good and has already fought side by side with Luffy
4) Luffy exepted Brook when he asked him if he could join. Even though brook declined Luffy’s invitation earlier
5) he alaccepted robin. Who was an enemy for a long time
6) he took Vivi with him even though he hated them earlier for attacking Laboom
So I ask again. What makes you think that Luffy is gonna refuse Yamato when she asks to join him on his travel after they have defeated the Beast pirates?
And don’t come with the argument that the makami is wanos guardian deity. That’s doesn’t mean anything. She was in wano for 20 years and couldn’t guard it from Kaido. Being there doesn’t mean shit. She can still protect wano by going back when they need her.
Thing is, Oda already did do something unexpected and unpredictable with Yamato. When she straight up asked to join the crew it was like nothing we'd seen before. Sure Robin also asked, but it is the fact that this was one of the very first things that Yamato said to Luffy and the audience that makes it so surprising. But he did something smart here and made it so that there was no straight answer from Luffy plus made it so they went separate ways. This scene builds anticipation and expectation for the future of the arc and now we're just waiting for the payoff. Honestly, this situation feels a bit of what happened with Brook.
The thought of Brook being a crewmember is planted in the audience's mind -> Brook's current circumstances prevent an official answer + they go their separate ways -> Anticipation and expectation is paid off when Brook joins
Say in an alternate world Brook decides to go off on his own to reunite with Laboon. Doing that would feel shitty as the audience was expecting a payoff with him joining. But what Oda does next is that he creates another set-up that builds anticipation and expectation for the future. Maybe he has Brook make a promise, maybe some ominous narration for the future comes up Grand Fleet Style. Either way, it allows the audience to easily accept not getting the payoff they expected.
And with Yamato:
The thought of Yamato being a crewmember is planted in the audience's mind -> Yamato's current circumstances prevent an official answer + they go their separate ways -> Anticipation and expectation is paid off when ???
In the same case here, if Oda decides to not go with the expected payoff then he needs to make another set-up for this character. If she's supposed to be Wano's guard mutt for the rest of the story I'm not sure how he's going to do that beyond a simple cameo in the final war.
So maturing and growing as a character is to give up lifelong dreams and listen to the whims of an abusive father? In the same series where this moment was a highlight?
What benefits would she add to a country beyond just her strength? Cause Wano already had a reputation that the samurai was strong as fuck to the point that AKAINU acknowledges them. Add Momo's current state + Luffy's influence + the fact that CP0 members as well as WG members, and TWO Yonko's and their crew might get kicked out of Wano tells me she's not really needed in this regard.
No story is invincible, it doesn't matter how popular a series is it's important to keep people engaged in reading weekly + getting them to want to reexperience your story. And considering that Yamato has had several chapters since the beginning where she's stated she wants to join/adventure I would say that the drive to meet fan's expectations comes from Oda here and not from outside forces.
Like, I agree that the big thing that Yamato is lacking is interactions with the crew. But I feel that it's a problem that's quickly fixable (And I think Oda is in the middle of fixing it with Brook and Robin). It's honestly the same with some of the major issues that Carrot has. Lack of relevance? Give her a hype redeeming moment.
But considering Yamato's relevance and popularity in the story I would say that she's going to get a proper send-off if she doesn't join. Yes, she came out of nowhere but she has since earned her place in the story. Also, I point to the Supernova, who were created right before Saboody and have influenced the story in major ways since.
Finally, sure Carrot could do the job but not with her current situation. Has been mostly absent since 1006 and the strongest memory in the community is her loss + Nekomamushi stealing her fight. She'll need that final push to get to that point.
The thought of Brook being a crewmember is planted in the audience's mind -> Brook's current circumstances prevent an official answer + they go their separate ways -> Anticipation and expectation is paid off when Brook joins
Say in an alternate world Brook decides to go off on his own to reunite with Laboon. Doing that would feel shitty as the audience was expecting a payoff with him joining. But what Oda does next is that he creates another set-up that builds anticipation and expectation for the future. Maybe he has Brook make a promise, maybe some ominous narration for the future comes up Grand Fleet Style. Either way, it allows the audience to easily accept not getting the payoff they expected.
And with Yamato:
The thought of Yamato being a crewmember is planted in the audience's mind -> Yamato's current circumstances prevent an official answer + they go their separate ways -> Anticipation and expectation is paid off when ???
In the same case here, if Oda decides to not go with the expected payoff then he needs to make another set-up for this character. If she's supposed to be Wano's guard mutt for the rest of the story I'm not sure how he's going to do that beyond a simple cameo in the final war.
So maturing and growing as a character is to give up lifelong dreams and listen to the whims of an abusive father? In the same series where this moment was a highlight?
What benefits would she add to a country beyond just her strength? Cause Wano already had a reputation that the samurai was strong as fuck to the point that AKAINU acknowledges them. Add Momo's current state + Luffy's influence + the fact that CP0 members as well as WG members, and TWO Yonko's and their crew might get kicked out of Wano tells me she's not really needed in this regard.
No story is invincible, it doesn't matter how popular a series is it's important to keep people engaged in reading weekly + getting them to want to reexperience your story. And considering that Yamato has had several chapters since the beginning where she's stated she wants to join/adventure I would say that the drive to meet fan's expectations comes from Oda here and not from outside forces.
Like, I agree that the big thing that Yamato is lacking is interactions with the crew. But I feel that it's a problem that's quickly fixable (And I think Oda is in the middle of fixing it with Brook and Robin). It's honestly the same with some of the major issues that Carrot has. Lack of relevance? Give her a hype redeeming moment.
But considering Yamato's relevance and popularity in the story I would say that she's going to get a proper send-off if she doesn't join. Yes, she came out of nowhere but she has since earned her place in the story. Also, I point to the Supernova, who were created right before Saboody and have influenced the story in major ways since.
Finally, sure Carrot could do the job but not with her current situation. Has been mostly absent since 1006 and the strongest memory in the community is her loss + Nekomamushi stealing her fight. She'll need that final push to get to that point.
Brook not joining the crew at that point would feel shitty because it would make little sense for his character. Not because Oda had introduced the idea of it happening.
Brook's character was written in a way that he was always meant to become a straw hat. In this instance, an alternative in which he somehow didn't, naturally wouldn't fit with what his character was building up to. They were at the halfway point through the grand line, so geographically it would be equal distance back to Laboon anyways. Not to mention that Brook had finally found friends after all that time. It would make no sense to leave them behind to once again sail solo back to Laboon.
Yamao has no such case because she simply wasn't designed to join the crew. Her character has a different purpose.
He has though. With almost every fibre of her being. From her character design, her backstory, her abilities, her aspirations, her relationships, etc. The set up for her to become Wano's guardian is absolutely overwhelming. There's a reason people were able to predict her devil fruit theme for instance. It was simply in accordance with literally everything else about her character.
I see it a lot, but I don't know where the idea that Yamao is listening to Kaido's wishes came from. It's not true. He wanted her to keep enslaving Wano for him. The polar opposite of what Yamao wants to do.
And the BB quote has zero relevance here. What that meant was that people will forever continue to have hopes and aspirations. That doesn't mean people won't make new aspirations and follow different paths. Vivi being a perfect example.
She can help Momo open the borders of Wano.
Reader engagement is a consequence of a good story. Not the other way around. Just because Oda introduced the idea of Yamao joining the crew, doesn't mean he has any obligation in the slightest to follow through with it. He should address it again, but that can be to simply say that Yamao grew up and decided to make better use of her skills.
They're not though.
Carrot has unresolved plots, so even if she isn't to join the crew, we can expect Oda to continue to develop her plots, meaning she'll get focus once again.
Meanwhile, Oda can't develop the relationship between Yamao and the crew because one simply never existed to begin with. The arc's almost finished and the opportunity for them to have had significant interactions throughout it, is long gone. Could Oda have them interact in the future? Sure. But for Wano, it's far past the point of anything significant potentially coming from it, since it's completely lacking in any meaning or narrative build-up as a result of failing to establish anything prior. You can't just plop two random characters together, right at the very end of a story, then expect sparks to fly, with no story left to tell.
The exact type of relationship she has with Momo is what she should actually have with a straw hat if she was intended to join. Their dynamic hasn't reached its conclusion yet. But because of the work Oda's put into it, there's tons of potential that can come from the two of them interacting in the future. For example, the moment Yamao sees Momo's adult form looking identical to Oden. Or when she sees Momo successfully carrying the island mirroring Oden's hour of legends scene.
Every soon to be straw hats had their interactions with existing crew members. Yamao has hers with Momo. The reasoning for that is pretty clear.
Brook's character was written in a way that he was always meant to become a straw hat. In this instance, an alternative in which he somehow didn't, naturally wouldn't fit with what his character was building up to. They were at the halfway point through the grand line, so geographically it would be equal distance back to Laboon anyways. Not to mention that Brook had finally found friends after all that time. It would make no sense to leave them behind to once again sail solo back to Laboon.
Yamao has no such case because she simply wasn't designed to join the crew. Her character has a different purpose.
He has though. With almost every fibre of her being. From her character design, her backstory, her abilities, her aspirations, her relationships, etc. The set up for her to become Wano's guardian is absolutely overwhelming. There's a reason people were able to predict her devil fruit theme for instance. It was simply in accordance with literally everything else about her character.
I see it a lot, but I don't know where the idea that Yamao is listening to Kaido's wishes came from. It's not true. He wanted her to keep enslaving Wano for him. The polar opposite of what Yamao wants to do.
And the BB quote has zero relevance here. What that meant was that people will forever continue to have hopes and aspirations. That doesn't mean people won't make new aspirations and follow different paths. Vivi being a perfect example.
She can help Momo open the borders of Wano.
Reader engagement is a consequence of a good story. Not the other way around. Just because Oda introduced the idea of Yamao joining the crew, doesn't mean he has any obligation in the slightest to follow through with it. He should address it again, but that can be to simply say that Yamao grew up and decided to make better use of her skills.
They're not though.
Carrot has unresolved plots, so even if she isn't to join the crew, we can expect Oda to continue to develop her plots, meaning she'll get focus once again.
Meanwhile, Oda can't develop the relationship between Yamao and the crew because one simply never existed to begin with. The arc's almost finished and the opportunity for them to have had significant interactions throughout it, is long gone. Could Oda have them interact in the future? Sure. But for Wano, it's far past the point of anything significant potentially coming from it, since it's completely lacking in any meaning or narrative build-up as a result of failing to establish anything prior. You can't just plop two random characters together, right at the very end of a story, then expect sparks to fly, with no story left to tell.
The exact type of relationship she has with Momo is what she should actually have with a straw hat if she was intended to join. Their dynamic hasn't reached its conclusion yet. But because of the work Oda's put into it, there's tons of potential that can come from the two of them interacting in the future. For example, the moment Yamao sees Momo's adult form looking identical to Oden. Or when she sees Momo successfully carrying the island mirroring Oden's hour of legends scene.
Every soon to be straw hats had their interactions with existing crew members. Yamao has hers with Momo. The reasoning for that is pretty clear.
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Thing is, Oda already did do something unexpected and unpredictable with Yamato. When she straight up asked to join the crew it was like nothing we'd seen before. Sure Robin also asked, but it is the fact that this was one of the very first things that Yamato said to Luffy and the audience that makes it so surprising. But he did something smart here and made it so that there was no straight answer from Luffy plus made it so they went separate ways. This scene builds anticipation and expectation for the future of the arc and now we're just waiting for the payoff. Honestly, this situation feels a bit of what happened with Brook.
The thought of Brook being a crewmember is planted in the audience's mind -> Brook's current circumstances prevent an official answer + they go their separate ways -> Anticipation and expectation is paid off when Brook joins
Say in an alternate world Brook decides to go off on his own to reunite with Laboon. Doing that would feel shitty as the audience was expecting a payoff with him joining. But what Oda does next is that he creates another set-up that builds anticipation and expectation for the future. Maybe he has Brook make a promise, maybe some ominous narration for the future comes up Grand Fleet Style. Either way, it allows the audience to easily accept not getting the payoff they expected.
And with Yamato:
The thought of Yamato being a crewmember is planted in the audience's mind -> Yamato's current circumstances prevent an official answer + they go their separate ways -> Anticipation and expectation is paid off when ???
In the same case here, if Oda decides to not go with the expected payoff then he needs to make another set-up for this character. If she's supposed to be Wano's guard mutt for the rest of the story I'm not sure how he's going to do that beyond a simple cameo in the final war.
So maturing and growing as a character is to give up lifelong dreams and listen to the whims of an abusive father? In the same series where this moment was a highlight?
What benefits would she add to a country beyond just her strength? Cause Wano already had a reputation that the samurai was strong as fuck to the point that AKAINU acknowledges them. Add Momo's current state + Luffy's influence + the fact that CP0 members as well as WG members, and TWO Yonko's and their crew might get kicked out of Wano tells me she's not really needed in this regard.
No story is invincible, it doesn't matter how popular a series is it's important to keep people engaged in reading weekly + getting them to want to reexperience your story. And considering that Yamato has had several chapters since the beginning where she's stated she wants to join/adventure I would say that the drive to meet fan's expectations comes from Oda here and not from outside forces.
Like, I agree that the big thing that Yamato is lacking is interactions with the crew. But I feel that it's a problem that's quickly fixable (And I think Oda is in the middle of fixing it with Brook and Robin). It's honestly the same with some of the major issues that Carrot has. Lack of relevance? Give her a hype redeeming moment.
But considering Yamato's relevance and popularity in the story I would say that she's going to get a proper send-off if she doesn't join. Yes, she came out of nowhere but she has since earned her place in the story. Also, I point to the Supernova, who were created right before Saboody and have influenced the story in major ways since.
Finally, sure Carrot could do the job but not with her current situation. Has been mostly absent since 1006 and the strongest memory in the community is her loss + Nekomamushi stealing her fight. She'll need that final push to get to that point.
The thought of Brook being a crewmember is planted in the audience's mind -> Brook's current circumstances prevent an official answer + they go their separate ways -> Anticipation and expectation is paid off when Brook joins
Say in an alternate world Brook decides to go off on his own to reunite with Laboon. Doing that would feel shitty as the audience was expecting a payoff with him joining. But what Oda does next is that he creates another set-up that builds anticipation and expectation for the future. Maybe he has Brook make a promise, maybe some ominous narration for the future comes up Grand Fleet Style. Either way, it allows the audience to easily accept not getting the payoff they expected.
And with Yamato:
The thought of Yamato being a crewmember is planted in the audience's mind -> Yamato's current circumstances prevent an official answer + they go their separate ways -> Anticipation and expectation is paid off when ???
In the same case here, if Oda decides to not go with the expected payoff then he needs to make another set-up for this character. If she's supposed to be Wano's guard mutt for the rest of the story I'm not sure how he's going to do that beyond a simple cameo in the final war.
So maturing and growing as a character is to give up lifelong dreams and listen to the whims of an abusive father? In the same series where this moment was a highlight?
What benefits would she add to a country beyond just her strength? Cause Wano already had a reputation that the samurai was strong as fuck to the point that AKAINU acknowledges them. Add Momo's current state + Luffy's influence + the fact that CP0 members as well as WG members, and TWO Yonko's and their crew might get kicked out of Wano tells me she's not really needed in this regard.
No story is invincible, it doesn't matter how popular a series is it's important to keep people engaged in reading weekly + getting them to want to reexperience your story. And considering that Yamato has had several chapters since the beginning where she's stated she wants to join/adventure I would say that the drive to meet fan's expectations comes from Oda here and not from outside forces.
Like, I agree that the big thing that Yamato is lacking is interactions with the crew. But I feel that it's a problem that's quickly fixable (And I think Oda is in the middle of fixing it with Brook and Robin). It's honestly the same with some of the major issues that Carrot has. Lack of relevance? Give her a hype redeeming moment.
But considering Yamato's relevance and popularity in the story I would say that she's going to get a proper send-off if she doesn't join. Yes, she came out of nowhere but she has since earned her place in the story. Also, I point to the Supernova, who were created right before Saboody and have influenced the story in major ways since.
Finally, sure Carrot could do the job but not with her current situation. Has been mostly absent since 1006 and the strongest memory in the community is her loss + Nekomamushi stealing her fight. She'll need that final push to get to that point.
If you want a good idea of his thought process:
--For now everything points to yamato being a straw hat ; oda being oda can change that or throw a curve ball or something but that is all there is to
--The reason she won't be a straw hat? Because its very obvious
--One thing to consider is crowding -- Already half the straw hats struggle in panel time so that is also there
--The reason she won't be a straw hat? Because its very obvious
--One thing to consider is crowding -- Already half the straw hats struggle in panel time so that is also there
Well damn, thanks for the warning then... 
The convo started to feel like it wasn't going anywhere anyway so it's a good place to stop.
Is he a Carrot fan too? If so, what a horrible tactic for anyone that wants her to join. If you spend most of your arguments trying to bait people by trashing their character it's only natural that they do the same right back at you. It would actually be better to support or at the very least acknowledge that Yamato is joining as some of the arguments used for her could be potentially applied to Carrot.
The guardian argument is funny to me as well. Since the number of times the story showed her dreams of adventuring was about 5 if I recall correctly. And for being the guardian of Wano it's about -1 right about now since she verbally rejected the role Kaido was trying to push on her.
The convo started to feel like it wasn't going anywhere anyway so it's a good place to stop.
Is he a Carrot fan too? If so, what a horrible tactic for anyone that wants her to join. If you spend most of your arguments trying to bait people by trashing their character it's only natural that they do the same right back at you. It would actually be better to support or at the very least acknowledge that Yamato is joining as some of the arguments used for her could be potentially applied to Carrot.
The guardian argument is funny to me as well. Since the number of times the story showed her dreams of adventuring was about 5 if I recall correctly. And for being the guardian of Wano it's about -1 right about now since she verbally rejected the role Kaido was trying to push on her.
It's a foreign concept in this thread to want someone over Yamato or to even hate her, but still acknowledge she has the best chances currently.
The fact still remains that no one can reasonably explain how or why Yamato would change her mind on leaving so she can be the guardian. She was deadset on leaving with Luffy even after seeing the current state of Wano and meeting Momo, who she fully knows the importance of in the dawn prophecy.
The fact still remains that no one can reasonably explain how or why Yamato would change her mind on leaving so she can be the guardian. She was deadset on leaving with Luffy even after seeing the current state of Wano and meeting Momo, who she fully knows the importance of in the dawn prophecy.
Well damn, thanks for the warning then...
The convo started to feel like it wasn't going anywhere anyway so it's a good place to stop.
Is he a Carrot fan too? If so, what a horrible tactic for anyone that wants her to join. If you spend most of your arguments trying to bait people by trashing their character it's only natural that they do the same right back at you. It would actually be better to support or at the very least acknowledge that Yamato is joining as some of the arguments used for her could be potentially applied to Carrot.
The guardian argument is funny to me as well. Since the number of times the story showed her dreams of adventuring was about 5 if I recall correctly. And for being the guardian of Wano it's about -1 right about now since she verbally rejected the role Kaido was trying to push on her.
The convo started to feel like it wasn't going anywhere anyway so it's a good place to stop.
Is he a Carrot fan too? If so, what a horrible tactic for anyone that wants her to join. If you spend most of your arguments trying to bait people by trashing their character it's only natural that they do the same right back at you. It would actually be better to support or at the very least acknowledge that Yamato is joining as some of the arguments used for her could be potentially applied to Carrot.
The guardian argument is funny to me as well. Since the number of times the story showed her dreams of adventuring was about 5 if I recall correctly. And for being the guardian of Wano it's about -1 right about now since she verbally rejected the role Kaido was trying to push on her.
Judging by how 1007 ended the next episode should have Carrot and Wanda's Moon Raid. Nothing that happens in 1008 will be used for arguments but there's something that I want to compare.
For reference, I talked about this briefly last week when 1006 came out which you can find right here.
TL-DR: The anime took a small panel on a page and made it into this massive epic moment for Yamato. The current thing to look out for is if the Moon Raid moment gets the same love.
For reference, here's the Moon Raid moment in 995
What I'm getting at here is that I want to see Toei's current attitude toward Carrot. Because it'd be some truly dire shit if a big page moment for Carrot doesn't get even a fraction of the love that Yamato's scene got in 1006.
I am unironically worried that this might be the case.
For reference, I talked about this briefly last week when 1006 came out which you can find right here.
They're definitely hyping her up as much as possible. Just look at yesterday's episode and see how much they added with the scene where Yamato saves Momonosuke from Sasaki's goons.
From chapter 993:
VS Episode 1006:
It literally goes from a small section on a page to a grand epic moment complete with the fact they gave her the same Black and White line effect that they gave Luffy when he punched the Celestial dragon.
It's to the point now where even in the super unlikely scenario that she does not end up joining she will 100% get the Law treatment. Yamato Fever has already been scorching, and it's only going to get hotter as the anime catches up to the manga.
On the topic of adding flair to certain scenes, I'm interested in how the anime is going to handle Carrot's fight with Perospero. I'm interested in seeing if they give the same love when Carrot and Wanda scratch Perospero's face as they did with Yamato in 1006 as well as they handle her defeat.
I'm not going to use anime filler scenes for arguments if they do add things to it, but I would like to get the general vibe the story has for Carrot when it gets to these moments.
From chapter 993:
VS Episode 1006:
It literally goes from a small section on a page to a grand epic moment complete with the fact they gave her the same Black and White line effect that they gave Luffy when he punched the Celestial dragon.
It's to the point now where even in the super unlikely scenario that she does not end up joining she will 100% get the Law treatment. Yamato Fever has already been scorching, and it's only going to get hotter as the anime catches up to the manga.
On the topic of adding flair to certain scenes, I'm interested in how the anime is going to handle Carrot's fight with Perospero. I'm interested in seeing if they give the same love when Carrot and Wanda scratch Perospero's face as they did with Yamato in 1006 as well as they handle her defeat.
I'm not going to use anime filler scenes for arguments if they do add things to it, but I would like to get the general vibe the story has for Carrot when it gets to these moments.
For reference, here's the Moon Raid moment in 995
What I'm getting at here is that I want to see Toei's current attitude toward Carrot. Because it'd be some truly dire shit if a big page moment for Carrot doesn't get even a fraction of the love that Yamato's scene got in 1006.
I am unironically worried that this might be the case.
Judging by how 1007 ended the next episode should have Carrot and Wanda's Moon Raid. Nothing that happens in 1008 will be used for arguments but there's something that I want to compare.
For reference, I talked about this briefly last week when 1006 came out which you can find right here.
TL-DR: The anime took a small panel on a page and made it into this massive epic moment for Yamato. The current thing to look out for is if the Moon Raid moment gets the same love.
For reference, here's the Moon Raid moment in 995
What I'm getting at here is that I want to see Toei's current attitude toward Carrot. Because it'd be some truly dire shit if a big page moment for Carrot doesn't get even a fraction of the love that Yamato's scene got in 1006.
I am unironically worried that this might be the case.
For reference, I talked about this briefly last week when 1006 came out which you can find right here.
TL-DR: The anime took a small panel on a page and made it into this massive epic moment for Yamato. The current thing to look out for is if the Moon Raid moment gets the same love.
For reference, here's the Moon Raid moment in 995
What I'm getting at here is that I want to see Toei's current attitude toward Carrot. Because it'd be some truly dire shit if a big page moment for Carrot doesn't get even a fraction of the love that Yamato's scene got in 1006.
I am unironically worried that this might be the case.
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