Future Events Who Will Defeat King?

[Garp the Fist]

Here's what I said yesterday in other thread about it.

Really him and Zoro are in the same position. One of them is fighting King, one of them is fighting Kaido. Nobody else makes sense for them. And there might be a bit of crossover to boot.

For both of them, Big Mom's out because she has nothing to do with their conflicts in the arc. Marco is here to avenge his crewmate, who was killed by Kaido and the Beast Pirates. Zoro is fighting for the people of Wano who've been oppressed by Orochi. Orochi is incapable as a fighter, so his fight will have to be against the people who have made his regime possible- again, Kaido and the Beast Pirates. Big Mom has nothing to do with these crimes, and as such is not a suitable opponent to them considering their story in the arc.

Yamato is the wildcard, but my gut instinct is he is not a foe to be defeated.


The lower Calamities aren't opponents with enough narrative oomph. We're talking about the right hand man of the future Pirate King, and the right hand man of the uncrowned Pirate King. For Marco it's quite basic- he's simply assumed to be capable of beating Queen and Jack, so it's not really that interesting. Zoro's still growing, and while we could say that Q and J would be a real fight for him, it isn't how Oda really does things. He'll want to match the right hands with the right hands- it's no coincidence that the team charging at Kaido right now is Luffy, Zoro, Kid and Killer.

If pushed to make an absolute decision, I'd say it's Zoro vs King and Marco as a main fighter against Kaido. But I do feel it can go either way right now

 

[OmegaPsyche]

And ? Remember we don't know Marco's bounty, but he has better hype(it's through overwhelming him that Teach got recognized as a yonko). He also has a superior devil fruit(a rarer than logia mythical zoan), plus that not only they are the strongest subordinates of their respective yonko crews(former in Marco's case and the strongest yonko's at that), but he is on the protagonist side, so if someone were to win between them in case of a full-edge fight, Oda will easily make Marco win

Didn't Luffy become 5th Yonko cause he beat Kuri?

Sure, Marco has better zoan, but King has fire abilities for some reason, so it evens them out. King is also a swordsman which gives him benefit of the doubt cause it makes him more lethal than Marco.

 

[PuckTheGreat]

From story standpoint, a full-edge battle between them brings no relevant information

On the other hand, Marco only has 2 suitable opponents, King and Kaido himself. Anybody else make no sense to him

But if he fights King in a full-edge battle, he'd win. If he fights Kaido however, there will be more tension , with his ability playing a crucial role at one point, hence i think that he might clash with King due to the parallels Oda brought up, but his main event will be against Kaido

I personally feel Marco is going to be fighting Weevil and will end up being hype for the later.
Marco fighting against Kaidou makes sense, but I'm not a fan personally. I think there's significance in the young gen taking out the yonkou themselves particularly with Blackbeard's speech about the young generation etc. Also can't help but feel that Marco joining in on the fight takes too much of the focus off the youngins. With the exception of Luffy and even that is debatable imo, Marco is the most prominent figure on the alliance side atm. So he's defo gonna outshine the likes of Law, Kidd etc. if he's allowed to get a crack at Kaidou not sure if you get what I'm tryna say...lolz

I can defo see King clashing with Marco given the similarities between their fighting styles and devil fruit but there's no sense in Marco beating King imo.

 

[OmegaPsyche]

I personally feel Marco is going to be fighting Weevil and will end up being hype for the later.
Marco fighting against Kaidou makes sense, but I'm not a fan personally. I think there's significance in the young gen taking out the yonkou themselves particularly with Blackbeard's speech about the young generation etc. Also can't help but feel that Marco joining in on the fight takes too much of the focus off the youngins. With the exception of Luffy and even that is debatable imo, Marco is the most prominent figure on the alliance side atm. So he's defo gonna outshine the likes of Law, Kidd etc. if he's allowed to get a crack at Kaidou not sure if you get what I'm tryna say...lolz

I can defo see King clashing with Marco given the similarities between their fighting styles and devil fruit but there's no sense in Marco beating King imo.

One Piece ain't all about new gen, guys like Marco & Aokiji are also relevant despite belonging to different gen.

 

[Jo_Ndule]

I personally feel Marco is going to be fighting Weevil and will end up being hype for the later.
Marco fighting against Kaidou makes sense, but I'm not a fan personally. I think there's significance in the young gen taking out the yonkou themselves particularly with Blackbeard's speech about the young generation etc. Also can't help but feel that Marco joining in on the fight takes too much of the focus off the youngins. With the exception of Luffy and even that is debatable imo, Marco is the most prominent figure on the alliance side atm. So he's defo gonna outshine the likes of Law, Kidd etc. if he's allowed to get a crack at Kaidou not sure if you get what I'm tryna say...lolz

I can defo see King clashing with Marco given the similarities between their fighting styles and devil fruit but there's no sense in Marco beating King imo.

How's he gonna outshine Kidd Law Luffy lol
When he couldn't outshine Jozu Vista Ace AT MF?

 

[MD Zolo]

Why can't Marco take on Kaido? If the Kaido fight is a group fight, then why wouldn't Marco be involved? I'm not sure why you ruled out Marco vs Big Mom either?

Because Marco vs. BM or Kaido is not a fight at all. In Group fight, sure. But Zoro has better claim to be a part of Kaido's fight than Marco.

 

[Cinera]

Lol Marco was already in Wano as a teenager, spent time there, grew bonds with Oden(Oden was his crewmate at one point) who got killed Kaido, grew bonds with Izo(one of Oden's retainers who might be included in Oden/Toki's 9shadows prophecy).

How exactly does Marco has no connections to Wano?

I guess I forgot these, thanks for pointing it out. I'll incorporate it in the OP.

The counter to the above (thanks @Bogard) would be that Marco actually does have emotional investment in Wano:

• He visted the country in the past as a teenager.
• He bonded with Oden and was his crewmate.
  • Kaido killed Oden.
• He bonded with Izo.
  • Izo was one of Oden's retainers and may have been included in Toki's prophecy.

Marco has much more involvement in the events of Wano than Sabo did with Dressrosa. He's not just a strong ally, and actually has a connection to the people and their plight. Sabo may not be a suitable reference class member to try and predict Marco's role.

I found the above counter quite persuasive, and it caused me to revise upwards my estimate of Marco's prominence this arc, and the chances that he faces King.

@Yo Tan Wa the above (counter)argument has caused me to revise upwards my estimate of Marco's prominence this arc. I still think Zoro and Kidd are likely to be more prominent than him, but the chances of that have been lowered.

I see marco and beckman stronger than the other YC1s, it would be high diff fights but there is no suspense in that fight. Marco wouldn't need to surpass himself while zoro would have to.

And in this kind of arc, I think oda if he was to make the calamities fight, he would like for their opponent to have a very hard time. This isn't happening with marco vs king imo.

Marco was even seen as a candidate for yonko position by the gorosei. He isn't on that level obviously but that places him above the likes of King so far.

I tend to dislike this type of argument; such arguments are not persuasive if someone doesn't share your position on a particular character's combat ability. I also think Marco is probably stronger than King, but I don't think he's a low top tier. I think they are on the same general level and ability wise, King seems to matchup quite well with him.

Marco being a level above King is not really clear from the manga. It's not something for which there is a consensus about among reasonable powerscalers. Relying on that particular position to argue that Marco wouldn't fight King isn't really compelling.

Correct. In any case, to finish the fight in Onigashima has a weaker payoff than moving to the territory where everything has started. If Oda want to build and leave a special footprint for Zoro in Wano (leaving a special lecagy that can be told for generation) he has to achieve something very relevant where many people can see it and that can only happen near a city in Wano or like I said on top of Mount Fuji. In the contrary I dont see Marco showing anything special to the citizen of Wano because is a well know character in the world of one piece

I think this is true, but I think it's a stronger argument for Zoro to face Kaido than King. Kaido is the one terrorising the people of Wano. He's the tyrant that needs to be disposed. It was Kaido that was referenced at Yasuie's execution:

Spoiler

Zoro defeating King in Wanokuni wouldn't have that much emotional impact, because King (at least as far as we know) hasn't really been oppressing Wano citizens. There isn't much reason for King to be defeated in Wano. Kaido? Yeah, but it's not really the case for King.

 

[PuckTheGreat]

One Piece ain't all about new gen, guys like Marco & Aokiji are also relevant despite belonging to different gen.

They are prominent characters yes but I personally dislike the idea of those characters aiding in taking Kaidou out particualry with talks about the dawn and the start of a new age etc. Marco joining in on the fight against Kaidou imo is akin to Sabo tag teaming with Luffy and Law against Doffy on DR which would have been pretty ass imo.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

King and Marco have been emphasized too much in the spam of 50 chapters for them to not fight.

 

[Luffy is the mc]

I tend to dislike this type of argument; such arguments are not persuasive if someone doesn't share your position on a particular character's combat ability. I also think Marco is probably stronger than King, but I don't think he's a low top tier. I think they are on the same general level and ability wise, King seems to matchup quite well with him.

Marco being a level above King is not really clear from the manga. It's not something for which there is a consensus about among reasonable powerscalers. Relying on that particular position to argue that Marco wouldn't fight King isn't really compelling.

It's still an argument nonetheless. I mentioned it before but I don't see characters as a group but as individuals.

Just because 2 people are YC1 doesn't mean they are on the same ballpark. King has no feat and marco only have a few so we can only judge by portrayal, and by portrayal marco is above king.
This fight wouldn't be as appealing to the readers as zoro vs king.
They might have a clash though but I don't see marco as king's final opponent.

 

[PuckTheGreat]

How's he gonna outshine Kidd Law Luffy lol
When he couldn't outshine Jozu Vista Ace AT MF?

If words gets out that Luffy, Marco, Law and Kidd for example defeated Kaidou. Who do think will be getting the most plaudits for it?...lolz. Kidd and Law are just gonna be treated like support characters at least from the eyes of the general public.

 

[Jackteo]

Because @pedxi, @Chrono, @Jackteo and others advocate that position. If they would like to vote it in the poll, I see no good reason to deny it to them.

Thanks :cheers:

 

[L o g i a]

It's obviously Marco ffs

They are way too similar to not fight at this point

 

[Jo_Ndule]

If words gets out that Luffy, Marco, Law and Kidd for example defeated Kaidou. Who do think will be getting the most plaudits for it?...lolz. Kidd and Law are just gonna be treated like support characters at least from the eyes of the general public.

He won't lol Luffy Kidd law are the main faces, unlike Marco, they never quit or lost ambition itook after losing to Yonko badlh
Marco is a loser, the whole world know the dude can't lead or survive NW on his own as captain.

There's nothing Marco offers combat wise except healing Kidd and Luffy

Post automatically merged: Jun 6, 2020

@Cinera add Perospero

 

[Shuyaku]

Thanks for the tag. Marco and Zoro seem to be the only viable options.

 

[Sadistic Senpai]

I want Zoro
But I expect it Marco, so I voted for Marco

 

[Jo_Ndule]

Perospero and King are the type who have their authority and power is questioned by Vets/flyers
Both are quick thinker in seeking solutions for the best of their Captains
Pero already has a beef with King.

There is a reason why Oda brought pero here.. He's also the only one beside BM to recognize King, unlike others who didn't know much.

Yamato and Kata are the conquerors whose authority and power can't be questioned.

 

[Just a member]

We can not have Marco defeat King, imo his role will most likely be of an hype tool for Kaido (or maybe Big Meme): something like him sacrifice his life in order to save Luffy from death 8maybe also somethingrelated to his phoenix powers, maybe something like the ope ope no mi oepration, something broken but that requires the life of the user).

If Oda puts him vs King it is already a fight we know Marco can win, at worst is a 50/50 and also it doesn't make sense to feed a secondary character that just pop out one of the main villains of the saga (after Kaido, BM and Orochi as a figure, as strength goes he is obviously 3rd in Wano villains). And if Marco takes King then the next natural question is "what bout Zoro"? The possible answers in the unlikely case Marco takes King are that Zoro helps with Kaido like Law and Kidd are supposed to do or that he takes the one next to King aka Queen (also how King and Queen are built to resemble Zoro and Sanji in more ways than one is clear). And then what about Sanji and Jimbe? If Zoro takes Queen then they should 1) Share Jack 2) take on Tobi roppos and with this we will have Luffy taking the way biggest piece of the cake as per usual but with M3 members taking pieces way smaller aka tobi roppos instead of calamities, aka Luffy manages to beat a yonko while Zoro a YC3 like Cracker and Sanji and Jimbe veteran level dudes (which Sanji already demonstrated good feats vs, see Oven and P1).

 

[RayanOO]

Perospero and King are the type who have their authority and power is questioned by Vets/flyers
Both are quick thinker in seeking solutions for the best of their Captains
Pero already has a beef with King.

There is a reason why Oda brought pero here.. He's also the only one beside BM to recognize King, unlike others who didn't know much.

Yamato and Kata are the conquerors whose authority and power can't be questioned.

Match up wise Peros has no chance , he doesn't really like fire , so they can't have a straight up fight but a backstab why not even if I don't really believe it

OT : I still believe that Zoro will fight King. Marco will maybe clash against King but not an all out fight.

The only way for Marco to fight King is if he is somewhat portrayed inferior to King or if we learn that Marco became rusty. Because I think Marco has better hype and portrayal and relevance so for now a fight with King is not that interesting , underdog fights or fights were you have to go beyond your limit are better and more Oda style.

And Zoro needs a big fight in Wano except King I don't see who he will fight. Cutting fire, high ranking member, swordsman etc : this fit an extreme diff fight with Zoro

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

What i think we are likely to see, imo.

Marco could have short clash with King, might be used to hype up King. A short clash.
After that point he will be one of the main fighting force against Kaidou. In start i expect Luffy, Kidd n Law to get careless n get beaten out very easily, while Marco being the only experienced fighter will keep the fight ongoing, while the others could retain their Haki in that time interval. Then at certain point during thr fight, i expect Luffy, Law n Kidd to awaken new PUs/DF and surpass Marco n deliver solid blows to Kaidou.
So Marco role mostly will be keep Kaidou occupied once the others are temporarily beaten i.e being highlighted as most experienced fighter among em and healing em in other panels,

And if he fights King, i expect this to be a solo fight, bt less likely imo. I still believe Zoro will fight King.

You also mentioned in other possibility i.e Marco keeping BM engaged, i dont think that will happen. Marco can't stalemate BM for much time and his connections are more to Kaidou like Bogard pointed out. For BM i have no clear idea what Oda has planned for her.

@Yo Tan Wa the above (counter)argument has caused me to revise upwards my estimate of Marco's prominence this arc. I still think Zoro and Kidd are likely to be more prominent than him, but the chances of that have been lowered.

That's appreciated Cinera, being open to changing your opinion.
Agreed with Kidd n Zoro, maybe even Law.