General & Others How would you make Zoro a better character?

Is Zoro a well written character? (For OP Standards)


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Have him interact with the others, show some semblance of emotion and actually struggle with himself and others to reach the top
And I asked you, DO YOU WANT TO INVESTIGATE THIS STATEMENT?

Like do you want to actually prove whether this statement you make is true or not like factually or do you want to just keep saying wrong things for the sake?

And get serious dude are you actually saying you don't know there's a difference between how much screen time the straw hats got pre time skip compared to post time skip, what the point of comparing QUANTITY OF MOMENTS between the two when we know for a fact that Oda chose to put all the strawjats in the background post time skip?

Anyway, just say yes if you actually want me to show you are wrong in these statements and are just saying shit to fill up space on this thread
 

Fujishiro

Cheese for everyone!
And I asked you, DO YOU WANT TO INVESTIGATE THIS STATEMENT?

Like do you want to actually prove whether this statement you make is true or not like factually or do you want to just keep saying wrong things for the sake?

And get serious dude are you actually saying you don't know there's a difference between how much screen time the straw hats got pre time skip compared to post time skip, what the point of comparing QUANTITY OF MOMENTS between the two when we know for a fact that Oda chose to put all the strawjats in the background post time skip?

Anyway, just say yes if you actually want me yo show you are wrong in these statements and are just saying shit to feel up space on this thread
Hey man, no need to get so triggered what the hell? Its just my opinion. Sure he had some semblance of personality when setting luffy straight at ph and his feeling angry against orochi, but to compare it to the amount of times he had character defining moments and growth pre skip is assinine. Again, its just my opinion. No need to get your panties in a twist. Sure zoro had less screen time, but most of the he was shown on panel he basically is just there, looking ''cool''.
 
Hey man, no need to get so triggered what the hell? Its just my opinion. Sure he had some semblance of personality when setting luffy straight at ph and his feeling angry against orochi, but to compare it to the amount of times he had character defining moments and growth pre skip is assinine. Again, its just my opinion. No need to get your panties in a twist. Sure zoro had less screen time, but most of the he was shown on panel he basically is just there, looking ''cool''.
Are you saying your opinion CAN'T BE WRONG? Like a flat earther can justify there claims as "it's my opinion" and so the flat earther is right?

See btw I recognize that you are just saying shit for the sake and that's why you don't want to actually investigate with me if you are right by saying "it's just an opinion bro"...That's why I'm asking for your consent before I prove you wrong... I'm not gonna just go off without establishing whether you want to know whether you are wrong or you just want to vent. Because the first option creates a dialogue and the second option is just blind ignorance.

So I'll ask the third and final time, do you want to get into an actual conversation about whether Zoro's character is bad post time skip even compared to pre time skip and whether he is written well in general regarding his actions and character progression? It's a simple yes or no.

In fact you don't even have to agree with me at the end of the discussion really, you can dismiss everything I say if you want. But just know it will be stored on this forum for all to see and judge
 

Fujishiro

Cheese for everyone!
Are you saying your opinion CAN'T BE WRONG? Like a flat earther can justify there claims as "it's my opinion" and so the flat earther is right?

See btw I recognize that you are just saying shit for the sake and that's why you don't want to actually investigate with me if you are right by saying "it's just an opinion bro"...That's why I'm asking for your consent before I prove you wrong... I'm not gonna just go off without establishing whether you want to know whether you are wrong or you just want to vent. Because the first option creates a dialogue and the second option is just blind ignorance.

So I'll ask the third and final time, do you want to get into an actual conversation about whether Zoro's character is bad post time skip even compared to pre time skip and whether he is written well in general regarding his actions and character progression? It's a simple yes or no.

In fact you don't even have to agree with me at the end of the discussion really, you can dismiss everything I say if you want. But just know it will be stored on this forum for all to see and judge
No, im saying its just how i feel mate. I am willing to, why are you so agressive ? Sure go ahead.
 
No, im saying its just how i feel mate. I am willing to, why are you so agressive ? Sure go ahead.
I'm being aggressive because I want to know the truth. That's all. I want to discuss with people so that the truth comes out.

Discussion is an amazing thing really. I mean I too have biases like the next guy but with discussion you can actually create an intellectual argument against your own biases to play out in your own mind.

Like I also "feel" things and I tend to vent my "feelings" too and when someone makes a good argument against my "feelings", I don't just stop feeling said feelings, I just stop randomly venting things that my intelligence has deemed wrong even if they rub me the wrong way still in my "feelings". After a while of think more about it I reconcile everything and either DROP the opinion entirely or even turn the other way and round and support the intellectual argument from the start.

That's the great power of having a discussion, you end up sorting out all your shit and always come out the other end better. In fact, you might actually be correct despite your argument stemming from "feelings" and come out of the discussion even more strengthened with an intellectual argument to back up your feelings.

That's why I want to actually get into these things that everyone just sort says like they are a meme. I've been responding to people in this thread for the last 8 pages and really no one has even tried to defend this point. That's why I getting convinced this is just a meme at this point. Like no one sort of thinks about it at all and sort of goes with the flow of the majority that started it.

Anyway, if you don't actually want to get into this then I can respect you having your "FEELINGS" on the matter and leave it at that. Just hope someone else who brings up this meme will want to actually defend it so that you read the aftermaths of that discussion instead
 

Fujishiro

Cheese for everyone!
I'm being aggressive because I want to know the truth. That's all. I want to discuss with people so that the truth comes out.

Discussion is an amazing thing really. I mean I too have biases like the next guy but with discussion you can actually create an intellectual argument against your own biases to play out in your own mind.

Like I also "feel" things and I tend to vent my "feelings" too and when someone makes a good argument against my "feelings", I don't just stop feeling said feelings, I just stop randomly venting things that my intelligence has deemed wrong even if they rub me the wrong way still in my "feelings". After a while of think more about it I reconcile everything and either DROP the opinion entirely or even turn the other way and round and support the intellectual argument from the start.

That's the great power of having a discussion, you end up sorting out all your shit and always come out the other end better. In fact, you might actually be correct despite your argument stemming from "feelings" and come out of the discussion even more strengthened with an intellectual argument to back up your feelings.

That's why I want to actually get into these things that everyone just sort says like they are a meme. I've been responding to people in this thread for the last 8 pages and really no one has even tried to defend this point. That's why I getting convinced this is just a meme at this point. Like no one sort of thinks about it at all and sort of goes with the flow of the majority that started it.

Anyway, if you don't actually want to get into this then I can respect you having your "FEELINGS" on the matter and leave it at that. Just hope someone else who brings up this meme will want to actually defend it so that you read the aftermaths of that discussion instead
I get you, but its not a meme to me. I honestly think this way now, used to love zoro but now hes become bland :(. I would like to see your arguments on the matter my friend.
 
I get you, but its not a meme to me. I honestly think this way now, used to love zoro but now hes become bland :(. I would like to see your arguments on the matter my friend.
There is no arguments. These threads are full of damage control.

Zoro doesnt lack any emotions. However he cannot express anything other than anger. And if he does smile its only for combat. Very rarely does he smile because he is genuinely happy. I think its like twice.

He also isnt shown to be intelligent, making interesting strategies. He isnt funny, other than his once in a blue moon lost gag. Which isnt even that funny if noones there to react to it. Nor does he get any moments outside of combat. I think all he ever got was the speech about what Sanji did. And all he did was state the obvious.

Its not harsh to think that Zoro is bland. There nothing to his character anymore other than swords and fights. Pre timeskip Zoro was a lot more better. Oda has just watered him down into the version thats is less complex and more appealing.

Hes regressed into how he was as a child. Albeit less angrier and more emotionless.
 
I get you, but its not a meme to me. I honestly think this way now, used to love zoro but now hes become bland :(. I would like to see your arguments on the matter my friend.
Alright sure. First of all let's address the panel time. I do not believe that panel time is irrelevant Since panel time NATURALLY endears people to a character. Aside from a character having just generally less character moments, panel time forces Oda to get creative with what to fill the panels with even outside of character moments.

For example one of the Gags Oda dropped for Zoro pre time skip to post time skip was the Sleeping around gag. This was a gag designed to feel up space. Zoro did not have anything to do in certain scenes and yet he still had to be somewhere in the scene so Oda made a gag that Zoro sleeps alot. This is NATURALLY ENDEARING even outside of Oda actually writing anything regarding Zoro. And this is only possible when you have the panel time to spare.

Zoro in the few panels he now has post time skip can't be shown sleeping around. Like there's plot happening all the time and for Zoro to be in a scene, he must be doing something or else the plot will stop happening for seemingly no reason. That's a whole gag obliterated because of screen time and so a little bit of that endearment goes with it.

Theres more examples than just this gag or gags in general that are lost from people just not being in the story so I picked an obvious one to make this point. That's my stance on whether panel time matters.

Now what Oda chose to do since this panel time is so little is make the scenes Zoro is in matter. Let's pick a situation that mirror a pre time skip one but is treated explicitly different despite it being a similar number of panels.

This situation is Zoro's interactions with Tashigi. Pre time skip, Zoro's interactions with Tashigi were trapped in between a gag and his complete disregard for her being a person at all. Zoro would fall on his ass and then call her imposter and then run away. That's the gist of their interactions through Loguetown and Alabasta. It's somewhat charming to see Tough guy Zoro fumble around and a good number of panels can be taken on this gag as long as you don't realise how immature Zoro is all the time.

Cut to Punk hazard and Zoro's dropped the gag because first of all panel time, and second of all he's matured. This is the first time Zoro actually gave a coherent answer to Tashigi in regards to how he sees her. He calls her WEAK. That's all. No more shouting about Imposters or whatever, he just tells her straight up that she's just weak. Tashigi was always under the impression that her gender is what made her not get respect from Zoro and her gender made weak but Zoro just tells her he doesn't respect because she's weak and she's weak because she doesn't try as hard as him. AFTER TWO YEARS, Zoro actually recognizes tashigi is a person and says something that's not a gag.

Of course you can read this as "Zoro being cool tough guy" and he is of course but he's also matured and THAT'S A GOOD THING. I mean at some point people mature and the gags stop being warranted.

In fact this comes full circle when Tashigi cuts down Monet and Zoro praises her for being stronger than he thought and she refuses the praise saying she's still too weak nonetheless. This is THE FIRST TIME she ever said she was weak WITHOUT mentioning her gender as the reason. I mean honestly how is this interaction not better than pre time skip Zoro just because Zoro is "tough cool guy".

I'll stop here for this specific point regarding panel time and how Zoro's actions in the panels had to be adjusted to actually matter more than they usually would pre time skip.

And don't misconstrue this as me saying the quality of moments pre time skip is inferior, but not every pre time skip scene with Zoro was "Nothing happened" and even though Oda hasn't had a scene like that post time skip with Zoro, he's done an admirable job with the time he has given Zoro nonetheless.

That's point number one of couse. On to the next one
 
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Fujishiro

Cheese for everyone!
There is no arguments. These threads are full of damage control.

Zoro doesnt lack any emotions. However he cannot express anything other than anger. And if he does smile its only for combat. Very rarely does he smile because he is genuinely happy. I think its like twice.

He also isnt shown to be intelligent, making interesting strategies. He isnt funny, other than his once in a blue moon lost gag. Which isnt even that funny if noones there to react to it. Nor does he get any moments outside of combat. I think all he ever got was the speech about what Sanji did. And all he did was state the obvious.

Its not harsh to think that Zoro is bland. There nothing to his character anymore other than swords and fights. Pre timeskip Zoro was a lot more better. Oda has just watered him down into the version thats is less complex and more appealing.

Hes regressed into how he was as a child. Albeit less angrier and more emotionless.
To be honest the lost gag makes me more angry than most lately. Like the dude got lost right before kaido showed up. And went somewhere else and didnt even exhibit any desire to come back. Motherfucker was out there eating sushi. People found that normal or funny but i just facepalmed.
 
He also isnt shown to be intelligent, making interesting strategies
What about that one chapter that was entirely dedicated to Zoro making a plan to cut up Pica? Or that time he made a plan to stop the bird cage? Or you know taking over the Neptune's castle? Or escaping that sinking ship in Sabaody? Or ordering the straw hats into formation in Wano as he decided to attack and kill Orochi? Or him figuring out the Magistrate was the murderer and killing him?

I actually disagree with ever other point you made in you reply but I just decided to address this one so that I can see how you respond to it
 
What about that one chapter that was entirely dedicated to Zoro making a plan to cut up Pica? Or that time he made a plan to stop the bird cage? Or you know taking over the Neptune's castle? Or escaping that sinking ship in Sabaody? Or ordering the straw hats into formation in Wano as he decided to attack and kill Orochi? Or him figuring out the Magistrate was the murderer and killing him?

I actually disagree with ever other point you made in you reply but I just decided to address this one so that I can see how you respond to it
I said interesting strategies. All those strategies is just cutting or using brute force. How creative lol.

Ordering the SHs in formation. Erm...what. All he said was cover for me to Franky and dashed Toko to Sanji and dipped. Lmao


These are not impressive or interesting. Just admit he isnt an intelligent character. All his problems have one solution for him.....the sword.
 

Fujishiro

Cheese for everyone!
Alright sure. First of all let's address the panel time. I do not believe that panel time is irrelevant Since panel time NATURALLY endears people to a character. Aside from a character having just generally less character moments, panel time forces Oda to get creative with what to fill the panels with even outside of character moments.

For example one of the Gags Oda dropped for Zoro pre time skip to post time skip was the Sleeping around gag. This was a gag designed to feel up space. Zoro did not have anything to do in certain scenes and yet he still had to be somewhere in the scene so Oda made a gag that Zoro sleeps alot. This is NATURALLY ENDEARING even outside of Oda actually writing anything regarding Zoro. And this is only possible when you have the panel time to spare.

Zoro in the few panels he now has post time skip can't be shown sleeping around. Like there's plot happening all the time and for Zoro to be in a scene, he must be doing something or else the plot will stop happening for seemingly no reason. That's a whole gag obliterated because of screen time and so a little bit of that endearment goes with it.

Theres more examples than just this gag or gags in general that are lost from people just not being in the story so I picked an obvious one to make this point. That's my stance on whether panel time matters.

Now what Oda chose to do since this panel time is so little is make the scenes Zoro is in matter. Let's pick a situation that mirror a pre time skip one but is treated explicitly different despite it being a similar number of panels.

This situation is Zoro's interactions with Tashigi. Pre time skip, Zoro's interactions with Tashigi were trapped in between a gag and his complete disregard for her big a person at all. Zoro would fall on his ass and then call her imposter and then run away. That's yhr gist of their interactioninteractions through Loguetown and Alabasta. It's somewhat charming to see Tough guy Zoro fumble around and a good number of panels can be taken on this gag as long as you don't realise how immature Zoro is all the time.

Cut to Punk hazard and Zoro's dropped the gag because first of all panel time, and second of all he's matured. This is the first time Zoro actually gave a coherent answer to Tashigi in regards to how he sees her. He calls her WEAK. That's all. No more shouting about Imposters or whatever, he just tells her straight up that she's just weak. Tashigi was always under the impression that her gender is what made her not get respect from Zoro and her gender made weak but Zoro just tells her he doesn't respect because she's weak and she's weak because she doesn't try as hard as him. AFTER TWO YEARS, Zoro actually recognizes tashigi is a person and says something that's not a gag.

Of course you can read this as "Zoro being cool tough guy" and he is of course but he's also matured and THAT'S A GOOD THING. I mean at some point people mature and the gags stop being warranted.

In fact this comes full circle when Tashigi cuts down Monet and Zoro praises her for being stronger than he thought and she refuses the praise saying she's still too weak nonetheless. This is THE FIRST TIME she ever said she was weak WITHOUT mentioning her gender as the reason. I mean honestly how is this interaction not better than pre time skip Zoro just because Zoro is "tough cool guy".

I'll stop here for this specific point regarding panel time and how Zoro's actions in the panels had to be adjusted to actually matter more than they usually would pre time skip.

And don't misconstrue this as me saying the quality of moments pre time skip is inferior, but not every pre time skip scene with Zoro was "Nothing happened" and even though Oda hasn't had a scene like that post time skip with Zoro, he's done an admirable job with the time he has given Zoro nonetheless.

That's point number one of couse. On to the next one
Yes i did appreciate the way he interracted with tashigi, but to say he didnt recognize her as a person before is kinda disingenuous. You can have cool moments and all that, but where is the meat? Panel time is important in judging a character and carefully distributing a characters actions but i feel like we need to get more into whats going on in zoro's head, which at the moment we dont. I never said that zoro didnt have some nice moments after skip, i said we dont get enough and most of the time the man does nothing but look cool. We get nothing at all. Ill try to answer this more concisely when i can, but i have to get going. Ill be back later! Thanks for the follow up, friend.
 
I said interesting strategies. All those strategies is just cutting or using brute force. How creative lol.

Ordering the SHs in formation. Erm...what. All he said was cover for me to Franky and dashed Toko to Sanji and dipped. Lmao


These are not impressive or interesting. Just admit he isnt an intelligent character. All his problems have one solution for him.....the sword.
Oh? So a strategy that WORKS is inferior to one with many steps that don't revolve around a person's innate abilities? Okay.

So who cares then? Zoro isn't law and so he's no expected to do things the way Law does. Zoro isn't anyone else. That's what gives him a personality. The fact that he solves problems IN THE WAY ZORO solves problems. That's what "having a personality" means, it's having a unique expression of your ideas or actions.

Hehehe, this is so dumb... Suddenly Zoro is supposed to be a diplomat or schemer or something and that's supposedly "Good writing" after 1000 chapters of that not being the case

Oh the dumbness is real here
 
Oh? So a strategy that WORKS is inferior to one with many steps that don't revolve around a person's innate abilities? Okay.

So who cares then? Zoro isn't law and so he's no expected to do things the way Law does. Zoro isn't anyone else. That's what gives him a personality. The fact that he solves problems IN THE WAY ZORO solves problems. That's what "having a personality" means, it's having a unique expression of your ideas or actions.

Hehehe, this is so dumb... Suddenly Zoro is supposed to be a diplomat or schemer or something and that's supposedly "Good writing" after 1000 chapters of that not being the case

Oh the dumbness is real here
Babes cry all you want. My orginal post is that Zoro doesnt make interesting strategies. Not inferior ones.

Ok and....Im not saying he should be intelligent. Im saying intelligence is one of the main traits he lacks. Lmao the way your damage controlling is hilarious !

Are you seriously losing your nut cause I said Zoro doesnt make interesting strategies. Do better sis.
 

nik87

Kitetsu Wanker
To be honest the lost gag makes me more angry than most lately. Like the dude got lost right before kaido showed up. And went somewhere else and didnt even exhibit any desire to come back. Motherfucker was out there eating sushi. People found that normal or funny but i just facepalmed.
LoL... That was one of the best moments. Zoro living the dream in Wano.
 
So when his crew is getting wrecked and they are all going through serious trouble, you think zoro ditching them due to his stupid gag is great? It just adds to the disconnect we feel there is between him and his crew now.
And what should he do? Go and fight Kaido? They have a plan and he's following it, what else he could do? Not saying that he didn't know about Beast Pirates attack at all.
 

nik87

Kitetsu Wanker
So when his crew is getting wrecked and they are all going through serious trouble, you think zoro ditching them due to his stupid gag is great? It just adds to the disconnect we feel there is between him and his crew now.
I love it, he is doing his own thing and has his own plot line.
Nothing would have changed if he remained with rest of the crew except him not getting his own panel time.
This is Zoro's arc, you will have to endure it.
 
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