Powers & Abilities Why didn’t Oden have a black blade?

#61
I don't think it's a direct power up in the sense that having a black blade made the user sword superior to one blade that isn't black. Otherwise the battle against Vista would be different. At a minimum the blade would be a actual concern during the battle.

The thing that I think is more plausible based on the hints is that a permanent black blade don't need a continuous infusion of Haki (CoA) to block or attack another haki user, making the user less tired and any use of Haki beyond the base a plus. A user without a black blade would end up wasting more energy to get the same base results as someone with a BB. In this sense a user of Black blade would have a advantage (specially in long battles) that would tip the scales in his favor, but this advantage is not a direct power up that increase AP or defense, beyond the usual levels of the user.
You do know it was explained what black blades actually do

you remember that right?

the part where they talk about the sword increasing in quality
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Black blade is CoA-related. Oden was probably more balanced in CoC and CoA attributes. Black blade is more of a narrative driven thing than power thing anyways.
@Ven437
Hmm but Ryuma has a black blade and Ryuma is talked about like he’s stronger than Oden… you don’t think Ryuma having a black blade counts as one of the reasons he’s stronger than Oden
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You want to know why he didn't turn his blade black. I asked how does one do that?
@Celestial D. Dragon The fox guy said Ryuma forged it from his countless battles… Also the fox guy said Ryuma was undefeated…

mihawk talks about black blades during the scene where he’s teaching Zoro CoA coating… he says Zoro needs to CoA coat his blades

so what we know is that it’s from CoA and “Countless battles”

Also Oden’s father said “Enma was yet to become a black blade”… So Oden’s father at least believed Enma was on its way to becoming a black blade… Meaning Oden was in fact doing something that made a black blade… and simply failed to accomplish it before his death… this is Oden’s after, the master blacksmith that’s saying this
 
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#62
Because it simply isnt that important.

If roger and whitebeard didnt have it then it simply isnt that important unless you want to argue that mihawk>>>>roger and whitebeard which is INSANE.

If xebec or sword gorosei turns out to have a black blade then i could believe that mihawk is stronger than we think, but thats about his last chance.

If neither xebec or gorosei have black sword than it simply isnt such an important thing after all.

Also, mihawk could have stole yoru from xebecs corpse.
 
#63
You do know it was explained what black blades actually do

you remember that right?

the part where they talk about the sword increasing in quality
Pay attention to what I actually wrote. Some people act as if a Black Blade is basically a WMD that gives a overwhelming advantage to a swordsman. Increasing the resilience of a blade does not matter that much if you are a hakiman that can coat your sword with CoA and protect it, specially since we saw a top tier swordsman being perfect capable of blocking and fighting against a black blade.
I will not repeat myself because it's a waste of time. I'm just stating a way that a BB can increase the resilience of a blade in a way that actually helps in a fight and does not contradict what was previously show.
 
#65
@Ven437
Hmm but Ryuma has a black blade and Ryuma is talked about like he’s stronger than Oden… you don’t think Ryuma having a black blade counts as one of the reasons he’s stronger than Oden
Yes Black blade is also a power thing but does not mean you are automatically stronger than anybody else who does not have a Black blade. I do believe Ryuma > Oden though. Black blade would mean Zoro has reached the level to finally challenge Mihawk, hence a narrative thing. Whatever level Mihawk is at, regardless of where you scale Hawk, when Zoro gets that Black Blade he is a worthy match for Hawk and they will likely fight. That’s what it means for it to be a narrative thing.
 
#66
Oden is not that guy
Ryuma and mihawk stomps
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Its stated he reached his peak at 39 in manga
Finally someone get that!!!

Ryuma stated to be equal to joy boy in term of strenght

Well Mihawk will soon show what it mean world strongest swordman. Shanks in a way shown where the bar has to be to at less compete to become the strongest swordman (basically one shotting Midd)
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This is actually very simple.

Oden wasn't strong enough.

Zoro's path is the lens in which we the audience are viewing the creation of the greatest swordman ever and his path to that power can't be anymore linear in terms of the progression of his swords and his Haki progression;

Meitou swords > incorporating Basic Coa > Advance Coa > ACOC > FORGING a Black blade/Supreme grade sword.

The idea that Black blade are created via some abstract concept of swordmanship and some unexplored spiritual affinity that "Pure swordman" have are just convenient excuses to justify why Mihaw/Ryuma have something that other Top tiers don't have instead of just acknowledging that they may be better at that criteria of power.

Heck, Katakuri have FS and Roger and Whitebeard are not canonically confirmed to have it.

Rayleigh have Internal destruction and Garp, Roger etc don't.

Oda asked what alongside Arnament Haki makes a Black blade and it very highly that it will just be a higher proficiency of a certain type of Haki (Acoc) or another power system. It won't be some "pure swordmanship" nonsense.
agree:cheers:, Oden'dad stated that Woro will 100% surpass Oden with the blacken blade feat, (currently Woro is = Oden which ko Kaido a top tier:kuzanshut:)
 
#68
I am very convinced that Black Blades are swords with souls in them. If DFs can inherit souls, why not objects. Awakening of a DF is basically taming the soul of the fruit. Cursed swords have souls in them too. Once they get tamed you obtain a Black Blade.
We don't have any clue what a Black Blade is really capable of. Since the taming of the sword will be connected to the user's CoC, zoro had none of the potential feats with Shusui.

Oden couldn't turn Enma into a black blade because he couldn't infuse CoC into his swords.
Other big shots who usewd adv CoC most likely had no cursed swords :kayneshrug:
 
#70
The dude permanently scarred Kaidou's body and mind with a single attack to the point where he placed Oden with Xebec/Roger/WB/Shanks.
Yes, young brat kaido who didn't even use hybrid form. It's not even proven he had access to that form. It was confirmed on screen that kaido got much, much stronger over those years. Oden was YC2 level. RT zoro would have mid diffed him.

He wielded Enma as if it was a feather which Zoro only started doing with KoH.
Difference between them:
Oden got used to enma by not-restraining his CoA. Why? Because he wasn't the brightest and maybe couldn't assess the dangers of haki depletion.
Zoro on the other hand was trying to be resourceful with his haki and also had barely days to adjust to the brand new dangerous af sword he got.
Later on he stopped restraining any haki, flooded his swords with CoA and as a side effect he was like 'Oh, there's another source of power I can use'.
So Zoro wanted to fart silently but he shat instead. Probably because he was already using adv CoC unconsciously for asura or basic CoC as part of his intimidating aura.
 

ConquistadoR

The Rogue Prince
#71
Yes, young brat kaido who didn't even use hybrid form. It's not even proven he had access to that form. It was confirmed on screen that kaido got much, much stronger over those years.
???
You do realize that Kaidou & Oden had been fighting for hours & only 1% of that was shown on panel right?
And that's partly because Oda's tendency to hide Villain's techniques until they actually go all out and fight Luffy on panel...

Who said Kaidou got "much, much stronger" over the years? I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but you got to be a Top Tier first before becoming a Yonko, not the other way around.
Kaidou & Oden were 100% top tiers back then, same as young Shanks & Mihawk during their duels - which caught the attention of Whitebeard himself and were termed as "legendary".

Oden was YC2 level
:saden:

"Yc2" Kozuki Oden






Actual Yc2





I'm not sure what manga you're reading to say Oden is Yc2, but it 100% isn't One Piece lmao.
I simply refuse to believe that you read through the Oden flashback and came to the conclusion that Oden is comparable to bums like Queen & Smoothie lmfao.
What's next? Does Sanjino beat someone Kaidou put on par with Xebec, Roger & Whitebeard? Lol.

RT zoro would have mid diffed him.
Loool KoH Zoro is basically Oden on a timelimit.
RT Zoro isn't midiffing diddy squat.



Difference between them:
Oden got used to enma by not-restraining his CoA. Why? Because he wasn't the brightest and maybe couldn't assess the dangers of haki depletion.
Zoro on the other hand was trying to be resourceful with his haki and also had barely days to adjust to the brand new dangerous af sword he got.
Later on he stopped restraining any haki, flooded his swords with CoA and as a side effect he was like 'Oh, there's another source of power I can use'.
So Zoro wanted to fart silently but he shat instead. Probably because he was already using adv CoC unconsciously for asura or basic CoC as part of his intimidating aura.
And you think Oden wasn't using CoC on his sword?
He's a Legendary Samurai who was praised by the likes of Roger, Whitebeard and Kaidou - some of the strongest people in the verse.
He's a CoC User and wielded Enma as if it was nothing, something that Zoro almost dies using consistently atm.

Read what Zoro says in that panel... it was his strength that was lacking whereas Oden had zero problems using CoC & overflowing CoA like Enma wanted because he was just built different.
Eustass Kidd gets one-shot by an attack that Oden casually walks off & that's when he was weaker (didn't have CoC coating).
I'd even say that Oden & Ryuma were the only Samurai from Wano who could ever compete with Mihawk.
9 Scabbards combined had a run on Kaidou and they couldn't even do 1% of what Oden did with a single strike.

Ofc, Zoro will surpass him eventually - but to suggest Oden wasn't a bonafide top tier at this point is ridiculous and just nonsense.
Let alone comparing him with trash that even Sanji destroyed.

He's a future benchmark for Zoro to surpass, and you're comparing him to bums like Smoothie...
 

nik87

Kitetsu Wanker
#74
I mean Oden is in Kaido’s top 5. The black blade is the Sword God Ryuma’s feat that I assume every Wano citizen knows about and wants to accomplish. Oden is at minimum scaled to Admiral level +

why didn’t he manage to make a black blade? Did he simply choose not to do it? Is he not a pure swordsman since he uses AdvCoC?
The common thing about Kaido's top 5 is they are all swordsmen and that they are all just the guys who are capable of fighting Kaido. They are not people who are capable of beating Kaido. That is a big difference that is being slept on and being ignored due to agendas.
Kaido was the embodiment of strength aka the Power representative of the older generation but Oda didnt make him into a swordsman to avoid handing out another black blade to keep the greatest achievement of Power as rare as possible.

Oden was strong, stronger than most people are willing to admit but that's all, on par with the other 4 among the Kaido's 5. Strong dudes but they all failed to reach the pinnacle of Power. Due to Ryuma being the source material and inspiration for Zoro, we could say that Oda only intended 2 individuals to reach the pinnacle of Power - Zoro himself and his biggest obstacle Mihawk, the Power representative of the mid-generation that bridges the gap between the old and new.

So, Oden, just like all others, didnt forge a black blade because Oda only intended Mihawk and Zoro(and his source material) to reach the peak of Power.
 
#77
only 1% of that was shown on panel right?
Yes and it's totally reasonable for someone to fight the last and most important part in a form much much inferior, right? Panels are speaking, kaido couldn't use hybrid form back then.

Who said Kaidou got "much, much stronger" over the years?
Here's your bubble to burst

you got to be a Top Tier first before becoming a Yonko, not the other way around.
Never doubted that. I didn't say he was fodder but for sure no comparison to his current prime form.

And you think Oden wasn't using CoC on his sword?
It's not me thinking it. It's oda who literally used oden as hypetool for adv CoC

If he had ever used adv CoC he'd know what it's capable of. Just like zoro did by instinct midfight against king


WB literally chose him to be YC2. If you're telling me he gave Marco the 1st division because he's been longer on board, why ditch Jozu or Vista then?
Oden was a WB pirate member when they established divisions. He got assigned for 2nd division. Thus, he's YC2. Simple as that.


I didn't mean to downplay neither Oden nor younger kaido. The discussion was abouit why oden wasn't able to turn Enma black. And my theory has two elemens: cursed sword + tamed with adv CoC - adv CoC. Which. Oden. Did. Not. Have.

Eustass Kidd gets one-shot by an attack that Oden casually walks off
At least we can agree on kid being fraudulent fodder.
 
#78
Yes and it's totally reasonable for someone to fight the last and most important part in a form much much inferior, right? Panels are speaking, kaido couldn't use hybrid form back then.


Here's your bubble to burst


Never doubted that. I didn't say he was fodder but for sure no comparison to his current prime form.


It's not me thinking it. It's oda who literally used oden as hypetool for adv CoC

If he had ever used adv CoC he'd know what it's capable of. Just like zoro did by instinct midfight against king



WB literally chose him to be YC2. If you're telling me he gave Marco the 1st division because he's been longer on board, why ditch Jozu or Vista then?
Oden was a WB pirate member when they established divisions. He got assigned for 2nd division. Thus, he's YC2. Simple as that.


I didn't mean to downplay neither Oden nor younger kaido. The discussion was abouit why oden wasn't able to turn Enma black. And my theory has two elemens: cursed sword + tamed with adv CoC - adv CoC. Which. Oden. Did. Not. Have.


At least we can agree on kid being fraudulent fodder.
Whitebeard's Pirate's Division numbers aren't a power ranking. Izou was the 16th Commander, yet she wasn't she YC16.

Any zoan user can use hybrid form. Eating a zoan instantly gives you access to human - hybrid - zoan forms. The only apparent exception to this so far is the Nika fruit and it wouldn't be fair to create a norm out of a rare exception that's riddled with many other oddities. So Kaido definitely had access to hybrid form when he faced Oden.

Oden didn't have aCoC when he met Roger and that was his first time witnessing it, but he fought Kaido a long time (more than a year) after that. I believe it's clear he learnt aCoC inbetween.
 

nik87

Kitetsu Wanker
#80
I think black blades are linked to coc so I think oden had the potential but died early
Roger, Rayleigh, Whitebeard, Shanks... What's stopping them? :catpole:

Because it simply isnt that important.
On the contrary, it is so important that Oda wants to hand it out to as few characters as possible.
Coincidentally, the two characters who will have them are both representatives of Power.
 
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