Powers & Abilities Why the black blade puts Mihawk and Ryuma above Oden by default
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Because it was shown that he couldnt. No upper hand in that clash. No one sided stomping like you are trying to paint it from the clash against the dragon form. Kaido was always stronger than Oden, stronger than everyone 20 years ago by Oden's own admission.
Yes, we know Oda was wanking Oden, that much is clear, it doesnt change anything regarding Kaido's strength.
Kaido wasnt soloed like an abused dog in Orochi castle, if Oden could have done that he would have. Stop talking nonsense.
Again, besting Kaido's dragon form is nothing impressive, stop making a bigger deal out of it than it is. Scabbards were rag dolling his dragon form easily as well, all they lacked was more firepower, there is nothing impressive about trashing his dragon form. Find me someone trashing his base or hybrid form. You cant. It is clear for anyone who understands how fights work and how storytelling works is that Oda was giving Oden a proper goodbye.
There was never a proper fight between Oden and Kaido, you assume too much from one attack which Oda allowed to happen to make Oden look good because the guy was about to die anyway. He couldnt defeat Kaido, that much I guarantee you, it was seen in their clash in Orochi castle.
Yes, Kaido didnt have the upper hand either but that's not the point Oda was making.
Kaido didnt want to fight Oden at that point BECAUSE he didnt like the odds of Oden's and Hyogoro's forces joining hands.
He didnt care about Oden's individual strength, he cared about numbers, which is constantly overlooked by power scalers...
Kaido was already the strongest back then and it is irrelevant. He delayed the fight until he broke Hoyogoro's forces slowly.
Yes, we know Oda was wanking Oden, that much is clear, it doesnt change anything regarding Kaido's strength.
Kaido wasnt soloed like an abused dog in Orochi castle, if Oden could have done that he would have. Stop talking nonsense.
Again, besting Kaido's dragon form is nothing impressive, stop making a bigger deal out of it than it is. Scabbards were rag dolling his dragon form easily as well, all they lacked was more firepower, there is nothing impressive about trashing his dragon form. Find me someone trashing his base or hybrid form. You cant. It is clear for anyone who understands how fights work and how storytelling works is that Oda was giving Oden a proper goodbye.
There was never a proper fight between Oden and Kaido, you assume too much from one attack which Oda allowed to happen to make Oden look good because the guy was about to die anyway. He couldnt defeat Kaido, that much I guarantee you, it was seen in their clash in Orochi castle.
Yes, Kaido didnt have the upper hand either but that's not the point Oda was making.
Kaido didnt want to fight Oden at that point BECAUSE he didnt like the odds of Oden's and Hyogoro's forces joining hands.
He didnt care about Oden's individual strength, he cared about numbers, which is constantly overlooked by power scalers...
Kaido was already the strongest back then and it is irrelevant. He delayed the fight until he broke Hoyogoro's forces slowly.
Let's be honest, there were only 2 panels or so of the fight between Oden and Kaido, with another one from Oda saying that the fight LASTED MUCH longer than any expectation because of Oden, so if anything, the panels that Oda showed us where the HIGHLIGHTS of their long fight.
https://www.lelmangavf.com/scan-manga/one-piece/970/11
https://www.lelmangavf.com/scan-manga/one-piece/970/12
Look at these panels and please tell me where it was even an evened fight? It's symbolic for Oda, that the sole moment Kaido had upper hand, was when he used a trick against Oden. You can't be stronger than an opponent if all you do is winning by a trick and everywhere else you are dominated.
https://www.lelmangavf.com/scan-manga/one-piece/970/11
https://www.lelmangavf.com/scan-manga/one-piece/970/12
Look at these panels and please tell me where it was even an evened fight? It's symbolic for Oda, that the sole moment Kaido had upper hand, was when he used a trick against Oden. You can't be stronger than an opponent if all you do is winning by a trick and everywhere else you are dominated.
T
I removed the part that was incorrect. the rest of your post is true.
CoA is not the only thing that matters and swordsmanship is also not the only thing that matters.
the best example is CoO. that is not an ability only related to swords. its general haki.
this can still decide a battle.
to clarify, the stronger CoA user can lose to the weaker CoA user when the weaker CoA user has better CoO.
swordsmanship is not just about CoA. far from it.
CoA is not the only thing that matters and swordsmanship is also not the only thing that matters.
the best example is CoO. that is not an ability only related to swords. its general haki.
this can still decide a battle.
to clarify, the stronger CoA user can lose to the weaker CoA user when the weaker CoA user has better CoO.
swordsmanship is not just about CoA. far from it.
it's all about narrator intention imo : When you don't have the full picture of something in a manga, especially a shonen, all you can do is make primitive conclusions given what the narrator/author wanted to show us :
What we saw ?
Oden owning Kaido in dragon form, despite 9vs1k and minus a snitch, and Kaido's team having all the time to prepare and having all datas to know when they come. And what did Kaido ? Did he had the upper hand? Yes. But how? only with a trick. And we'r in OP, it says it all.
You have the burden fo the proof, not me, i've showed enough, actually everything that Oda showed us.
What we saw ?
Oden owning Kaido in dragon form, despite 9vs1k and minus a snitch, and Kaido's team having all the time to prepare and having all datas to know when they come. And what did Kaido ? Did he had the upper hand? Yes. But how? only with a trick. And we'r in OP, it says it all.
You have the burden fo the proof, not me, i've showed enough, actually everything that Oda showed us.
What we saw is this:
Oden owning dragon Kaido - Scabbards owning dragon Kaido.
Oden doing nothing to base Kaido - Scabbards getting owned by base Kaido.
It is clear as day that dragon Kaido and base Kaido are two different worlds.
We have literally seen that Oden cannot do anything to base Kaido, literally manga fact.
Oden owning dragon Kaido - Scabbards owning dragon Kaido.
Oden doing nothing to base Kaido - Scabbards getting owned by base Kaido.
It is clear as day that dragon Kaido and base Kaido are two different worlds.
We have literally seen that Oden cannot do anything to base Kaido, literally manga fact.
Where? The sole moment Kaido was in base form was when he knew the trick worked and Oden didn't cared about the fight - nor could he, he was focused on saving what he believed was his son. How could he even do something? It's was not a fight anymore.
And 9 men, powered up due to the raid attack and 20 years training, couldn't reopen his scar, no creating a new one, so much that Kaido said all their 9 power combined was nothing compared to Oden from which he has PTSD.
If Kaido was stronger in his base form than Oden, Oda would've showed us at least one panel of him having the upper hand in a "normal" fight. Never happened.
Well if for you, not beeing able to do anything to an opponent because he tricked you means you'r below him, then, WB somehow is weaker than Squardo.
And 9 men, powered up due to the raid attack and 20 years training, couldn't reopen his scar, no creating a new one, so much that Kaido said all their 9 power combined was nothing compared to Oden from which he has PTSD.
If Kaido was stronger in his base form than Oden, Oda would've showed us at least one panel of him having the upper hand in a "normal" fight. Never happened.
Well if for you, not beeing able to do anything to an opponent because he tricked you means you'r below him, then, WB somehow is weaker than Squardo.
J
Mihawk and Oden aren't relative
Oden lived his piracy when Mihawk wasn't even rookie
Oden died before mihawk could br Wss
Oden wasn't weaker back
He himself stated he reached his peak
We know Kaido's peak is being WSC and King of v1
No, Base kaido didn't try to beat Oden in he casle
They fought for hours, only Oden was so enraged
Oden only chance of beating kaido is hen kaido uses dragon form, even then he was getting dominated until kaido looked away to do soam boro breaths as he did the whole battle
Oden lived his piracy when Mihawk wasn't even rookie
Oden died before mihawk could br Wss
Oden wasn't weaker back
He himself stated he reached his peak
We know Kaido's peak is being WSC and King of v1
No, Base kaido didn't try to beat Oden in he casle
They fought for hours, only Oden was so enraged
Oden only chance of beating kaido is hen kaido uses dragon form, even then he was getting dominated until kaido looked away to do soam boro breaths as he did the whole battle
Why do I always have to tell people how to read the manga... 
Is this Oden owning Kaido? He couldn't do shit. Because nobody can either.
Kaido is unbeatable in 1vs1. So, if you want Zoro to beat Kaido, you can have that with dragon form, not with base form.
Certainly, nobody else will do the cutting for Zoro, it is all his power.
Is this Oden owning Kaido? He couldn't do shit. Because nobody can either.
Kaido is unbeatable in 1vs1. So, if you want Zoro to beat Kaido, you can have that with dragon form, not with base form.
Certainly, nobody else will do the cutting for Zoro, it is all his power.
Why do I always have to tell people how to read the manga...
Is this Oden owning Kaido? He couldn't do shit. Because nobody can either.
Kaido is unbeatable in 1vs1. So, if you want Zoro to beat Kaido, you can have that with dragon form, not with base form.
Certainly, nobody else will do the cutting for Zoro, it is all his power.
Is this Oden owning Kaido? He couldn't do shit. Because nobody can either.
Kaido is unbeatable in 1vs1. So, if you want Zoro to beat Kaido, you can have that with dragon form, not with base form.
Certainly, nobody else will do the cutting for Zoro, it is all his power.
To see the "Wtf having they been reading to reach that conclusion" look....
Roger ran up on a High Tier like this
And swatted him away like a fly.....
You'd think someone above him would suggest to postpone a fight against the same caliber of opponent if he was capable of defeating him with much more ease than Roger?
Roger ran up on a High Tier like this
And swatted him away like a fly.....
You'd think someone above him would suggest to postpone a fight against the same caliber of opponent if he was capable of defeating him with much more ease than Roger?
To see the "Wtf having they been reading to reach that conclusion" look....
Roger ran up on a High Tier like this
And swatted him away like a fly.....
You'd think someone above him would suggest to postpone a fight against the same caliber of opponent if he was capable of defeating him with much more ease than Roger?
Roger ran up on a High Tier like this
And swatted him away like a fly.....
You'd think someone above him would suggest to postpone a fight against the same caliber of opponent if he was capable of defeating him with much more ease than Roger?
That fact that you guys can't seem to see the sheer difference in portrayal of Roger in comparison to Mihawk is pretty funny.
Oden > Vista and Roger effortlessly dealt with him to get to Whitebeard. But Mihawk who couldn't effortlessly deal with Vista to get to Luffy, is somehow above Roger....
Oden > Vista and Roger effortlessly dealt with him to get to Whitebeard. But Mihawk who couldn't effortlessly deal with Vista to get to Luffy, is somehow above Roger....