Yeah, a combination of strength + control is probably what causes a black blade. Roger had the strength but not the control to create the perfect flow, rather using barriers through his sword. I don't believe not even Roger (DFless and yet on primebeards level) had peak CoA. I'm sure his CoA was as strong as it can get.
Powers & Abilities Why Zoro turning Enma into a blade blade symbolises surpassing Oden
- Thread starter T.D.A
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I agree with this sentiment but (and @Celestial D. Dragon I want your answer on this too), lets say Mihawk and Roger have same level of Raw CoA reserves but Mihawk has better control.
Wouldn't that make Mihawk overall superior CoA user?
pretty down in what sense?
He was disappointed that he lost a weapon lmao?
Like no shit he was, he needs all three weapons to fight lmao. Was he disappointed that he doesn't have all 3 weapons or was he specifically disappointed that he lost Yubashiri?
The correct answer is he was disappointed he doesn't have all three swords.
Wouldn't that make Mihawk overall superior CoA user?
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DO you remember what happened to Yubashiri?
He seemed pretty down about that. So calling false on that one. Plus he laid it to rest on Thriller Bark in the Gravesite.
He seemed pretty down about that. So calling false on that one. Plus he laid it to rest on Thriller Bark in the Gravesite.
He was disappointed that he lost a weapon lmao?
Like no shit he was, he needs all three weapons to fight lmao. Was he disappointed that he doesn't have all 3 weapons or was he specifically disappointed that he lost Yubashiri?
The correct answer is he was disappointed he doesn't have all three swords.
Or maybe he gave Shusui up because he's not that heartless, and he knows what it means to the people of Wano. But his pride is too great for him to just give them the Sword back, but when they proposed an even trade, he did it.
As there was an emotional impact when Yabashiri was broken. Oda showed Zoro reminiscing about when he first obtained the sword.
As there was an emotional impact when Yabashiri was broken. Oda showed Zoro reminiscing about when he first obtained the sword.
Perhaps the emotional impact is the result of the fact that it was given to him as a gift, as he is literally thinking about the guy who gifted him.
You know if one of my homies gave me a watch as a gift and someone steals is, it might impact me emotionally a little, doesn't mean I am obsessed with watches lmao.
You telling me Shanks won't give a flying fuck about Gryphon if someone gifted him? How many fucks did Zoro gives about his blades that Mihawk broke?
Also you telling me Kozuki Oden doesn't care about his swords? The man who chose his swords to be parting gifts for his children lmao @Celestial D. Dragon
You know if one of my homies gave me a watch as a gift and someone steals is, it might impact me emotionally a little, doesn't mean I am obsessed with watches lmao.
You telling me Shanks won't give a flying fuck about Gryphon if someone gifted him? How many fucks did Zoro gives about his blades that Mihawk broke?
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Also you telling me Kozuki Oden doesn't care about his swords? The man who chose his swords to be parting gifts for his children lmao @Celestial D. Dragon
It's not in Zoro's character to get over emotional about things. It doesn't mean he doesn't care about them. Something as simple as Oda showing us him reminiscing about Yubashiri is enough for us to know he cared about the Sword. That's how a character like Zoro gets conveyed. There isn't going to be any dramatic nonsense of him welling up, or crying, because that's not who he is. He's a "tough guy" who on the surface acts like things don't bother him.
I mean, he didn't get over emotional and cry during the Going Merry's funeral. Does that mean he didn't care about the Merry?
I mean, he didn't get over emotional and cry during the Going Merry's funeral. Does that mean he didn't care about the Merry?
Jeeeez we don't know jack shit about obtaining a black blade, too much headcanon.
Anyway it stands to reason that Zoro is almost guaranteed do it and there's a living chance that we may even see it as part of this arc. I guess that would have to put him over Oden by default. Not that it's not cool, but it's kinda bullshit when you think about Oden's life in Wano and abroad, and I say that as someone who thinks Zoro is an infinitely better character.
Considering the age and history of Shusui, on that musty ass goth island in the grip of a corpse especially, this is really awful.
Anyway it stands to reason that Zoro is almost guaranteed do it and there's a living chance that we may even see it as part of this arc. I guess that would have to put him over Oden by default. Not that it's not cool, but it's kinda bullshit when you think about Oden's life in Wano and abroad, and I say that as someone who thinks Zoro is an infinitely better character.
Considering the age and history of Shusui, on that musty ass goth island in the grip of a corpse especially, this is really awful.
Bro I fail to understand what your point is.
Does Zoro absolutely give zero fucks about his swords? No its not like that.
But he doesn't live by the sword and die by the sword (what ever the fuck that means) any more than Gol D Roger does or Shanks does.
In the span of last two years Zoro has changed like 4 or 5 swords, he doesn't have emotional attachment to his blades.
There are swords that he has attachment to but its not because of the sword itself but people associated with those swords like Wado is Kuina's sword, his child hood best friend and Yubashiri was given to him as a gift.
But to suggest that Zoro has more attachment to his swords than Oden who has had his blades ever since he was a kid, while Zoro has not held a blade on panel for more than 2 years with exception of Wado Ichimonji is pure nonsense.
Like you know this current set is not final set of Zoro's blades either, Oda wanks Zoro too much to not give him at least one supreme grade blade, which would probably be Shodai Kitetsu.
Does Zoro absolutely give zero fucks about his swords? No its not like that.
But he doesn't live by the sword and die by the sword (what ever the fuck that means) any more than Gol D Roger does or Shanks does.
In the span of last two years Zoro has changed like 4 or 5 swords, he doesn't have emotional attachment to his blades.
There are swords that he has attachment to but its not because of the sword itself but people associated with those swords like Wado is Kuina's sword, his child hood best friend and Yubashiri was given to him as a gift.
But to suggest that Zoro has more attachment to his swords than Oden who has had his blades ever since he was a kid, while Zoro has not held a blade on panel for more than 2 years with exception of Wado Ichimonji is pure nonsense.
Like you know this current set is not final set of Zoro's blades either, Oda wanks Zoro too much to not give him at least one supreme grade blade, which would probably be Shodai Kitetsu.
J
Oda makes it clear always
VC isn't credible that much
Only certain Infos are true, the others aren't given and the others are exaggerated.
Momo and Retainers will also surpass Oden right since they inherited Oden's will?
Luffy and Yamato too did the same
Only Luffy gets to surpass Oden.
Oden is second to none but Great Pirates and maybe FA level marines
Oden is Luffy, Roger is Luffy
Zoro is barely like Rayleigh, even then Rayleigh has more connections to Luffy than Zoro ever dreamt.
Vivrebook says Garp doesn't have CoC so you can't invent headcanon to support your argument. If down the line Garp is revealed to have CoC then we can adjust but a canon source literally specifies he doesn't.
Zoro inherited Oden's will the very moment he inherited Enma.
Using your logic, Zoro can't have surpassed Arlong because Luffy surpassed Arlong
Zoro inherited Oden's will the very moment he inherited Enma.
Using your logic, Zoro can't have surpassed Arlong because Luffy surpassed Arlong
Only certain Infos are true, the others aren't given and the others are exaggerated.
Momo and Retainers will also surpass Oden right since they inherited Oden's will?
Luffy and Yamato too did the same
Only Luffy gets to surpass Oden.
Oden is second to none but Great Pirates and maybe FA level marines
Oden is Luffy, Roger is Luffy
Zoro is barely like Rayleigh, even then Rayleigh has more connections to Luffy than Zoro ever dreamt.
VC is more reliable than headcanon though... Given that Sengoku was stated to have CoC there was no reason to withhold that same info for Garp.
I still don't get why you think Luffy has to be the only one that surpasses Oden? This makes no sense.
The only reason seems to be you think Zoro can't be that strong, but that's the fault of downplaying the likes of Zoro and the EoS potential.
You might not be wrong about it.
Since Zoro already might be a top tier, forging a black blade could mean that he is at least equal or comparable to Mihawk.
He only needs to prove it when he meets Mihawk.
Luffy cant surpass swordsmen. He can surpass Dragon and Garp.
Oden and Roger are swordsmen, Luffy isnt.
Of course Zoro isnt like Rayleigh, Zoro is Zoro, the one and only.
Since Zoro already might be a top tier, forging a black blade could mean that he is at least equal or comparable to Mihawk.
He only needs to prove it when he meets Mihawk.
Luffy cant surpass swordsmen. He can surpass Dragon and Garp.
Oden and Roger are swordsmen, Luffy isnt.
Of course Zoro isnt like Rayleigh, Zoro is Zoro, the one and only.
Yeah he's changed swords like 4-5 times, but you act like Zoro just willingly gives up his Swords on a whim to get better ones, when in reality he's had no choice because his broke, and his sword style is uses 3 swords. So yeah, he kind of has to replace the broken ones, otherwise he can't fight to his maximum potential. The only sword he has willingly given up is Shusui, and it was for a just reason. But to act like he didn't care about any of them is absurd.
And when did I ever say anything about "Lives by the Sword, Dies by the Sword?" That isn't even part of this topic of conversation, and has fuck all to do with Zoro, as it doesn't mean what people think it does, so I am not sure why you even bring it up, Lol.
And when did I ever say anything about "Lives by the Sword, Dies by the Sword?" That isn't even part of this topic of conversation, and has fuck all to do with Zoro, as it doesn't mean what people think it does, so I am not sure why you even bring it up, Lol.
Based on what we were told of Ryuma's past achievements, he actively participated in battles to protect Wano from the World by himself. Oden did not. He lacks the amount of combat experience Ryuma possessed. Their level of progress is not and will never be the same. For the most part Oden was messing around and causing mischief most of his life to the point his father exiled his ass.
I know you're banned now, but stop this stupid fucking bs lmao.
It's been a pain just reading through this thread in general with everyone trying to pretend they know exactly how a black blade is forged like Oda clearly displayed everything in detail when he hasnt.
"This and that just headcanon"
Until Oda confirms shit guys, all of your arguments are head canon rn.
Like I so wanted to join in on the discussion at first but this was so exhausting to read i cant even be bothered.
Zoro turning Enma black doesnt put him above Oden to answer the OP. Zoro was in possession of a black blade already and he was nowhere near top swordsman level. There's more to achieving top swordsman status than just forging or being in possession of a black blade. Doing so is just a first step and even so doesnt solidify anything all the same.
Roger didnt need one to stand at the top along with the others. And the same Oden who cut Kaido would still get his ass torn up by the PK like their in first encounter with each other... without a black blade.
I know you're banned now, but stop this stupid fucking bs lmao.
It's been a pain just reading through this thread in general with everyone trying to pretend they know exactly how a black blade is forged like Oda clearly displayed everything in detail when he hasnt.
"This and that just headcanon"
Until Oda confirms shit guys, all of your arguments are head canon rn.
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Like I so wanted to join in on the discussion at first but this was so exhausting to read i cant even be bothered.
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Zoro turning Enma black doesnt put him above Oden to answer the OP. Zoro was in possession of a black blade already and he was nowhere near top swordsman level. There's more to achieving top swordsman status than just forging or being in possession of a black blade. Doing so is just a first step and even so doesnt solidify anything all the same.
Roger didnt need one to stand at the top along with the others. And the same Oden who cut Kaido would still get his ass torn up by the PK like their in first encounter with each other... without a black blade.
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Zoro isn't gonna have the combat experience that Ryuma had, is he? Hell, as some people love reminding us, Zoro has only fought "fodder" since entering the NW. Is he gonna acquire combat experience equal to or greater than Ryuma's 47 years of life? What about Oden's 39? He apparently got a lot stronger by the time he came back to Wano...
As for the second part of the quote, using Enma to compare Oden and Zoro is perfectly valid. We have a common measuring stick in Enma, and we know that making Enma a black blade was beyond Oden's capabilities.
As for the second part of the quote, using Enma to compare Oden and Zoro is perfectly valid. We have a common measuring stick in Enma, and we know that making Enma a black blade was beyond Oden's capabilities.
