Spoiler One Piece Chapter 1002 Spoilers Discussion

[WesMidnight]

bet me zoros fight will/wont be queen

I predict the YC will come to this fight, and the other supernovas and Sanji will get involved to up the ante on this war with more moving chess pieces.
I do think Zoro will take out a YC rather than killing Kaido.
It could be Smoothie or Jack also I suppose but they are much less likely than Queen (who I consider as strong as King) , and Zoro is more nerfed at the moment than Sanji, just how Sanji was more nerfed on Enes Lobby and how Zoro was more nerfed on Arlong Park.

 

[comrade]

I don't see how Kamazou loses tho.
Kamazou must still have reflexes, speed, CoO etc.

Sure, but base Sanji also has good reflexes, speed and CoO, plus DJ. And the Raid Suit boosts your speed, AP, defense, gives you flight and invisibility. He tanked King's beak at full speed and quickly got rid of Page 1. I can imagine him beating Queen. And I doubt Kamazou without his signature weapons can beat Queen. Especially since I think that abilities like the Sonic Blade were invented by Killer post Kamazou, as an answer to Kaido's tough scales (hence Kaido said they figured a way to bypass them). But current Killer with his signature weapons would beat Sanji.

 

[Blother Fertitta]

I am from the same country luffy would be if he lived in the real world

THIS IS BRAZILLLL

 

[Ballel]

american european same thing most europeans watch american media, so they are light americans

Ok I'll stop arguing with you about this because you're a 9 year old Japanese supremacist who thinks they are superior to everyone here.

 

[HA001]

I predict the YC will come to this fight, and the other supernovas and Sanji will get involved to up the ante on this war with more moving chess pieces.
I do think Zoro will take out a YC rather than killing Kaido.
It could be Smoothie or Jack also I suppose but they are much less likely than Queen (who I consider as strong as King) , and Zoro is more nerfed at the moment than Sanji, just how Sanji was more nerfed on Enes Lobby and how Zoro was more nerfed on Arlong Park.

aight bet your account
ill be nice and give you all 3 options of queen jack and smoothie being zoros final fight

 

[Peroroncino]

THIS IS BRAZILLLL

HELL YEAH!

 

[Ice devil slayer]

Zoro could have taken off Queens head. And there would be no need for Lanji to fight him

Legit lmfao
Queen would've been wrecked if Zoro was serious

Image what would've happened to Apoo..lmfao

 

[uyuu]

What's unusual about the sword is the ridiculous amount of haki it releases from the swordsman who wields it.

"Release enma" = Releasing Zoro's armament haki.

Oden's presence in Enma is not something unusual.
It's pretty much the case for every sword which have been used for a long time by the same user or when the user inherits it : for example, Kuina's presence is also in Wado Ichimonji ... yet we don't make a fuss about it.

The manga directly said about the sword, not the person wielding it, not the person's haki wielding it, not the person in any way. If you want to use Kaidou avoiding Zoro's attack as an implication how dangerous that attack is, its fine. If you want to state that Zoro's armament technique has increased and he can tame Enma better, its also fine. But just accept the manga statements that Kaidou+BM's focus was fully about the powers from the sword instead from the person. That way, other fandoms views about the majority of Zoro fandom wouldnt be so sour.

 

[Superior to you]

Ok I'll stop arguing with you about this because you're a 9 year old Japanese supremacist who thinks they are superior to everyone here.

not 9 im in my late 20s. you are right no need to talk to you, you will never get it.

 

[Erkan12]

Edit: Why isnt this "Left hand man" you speak of on the roof?

Because unlike Zoro, Sanji wouldn't need Law's help to land his attacks due to his slowness, this is a team battle you know.

Zoro would be humiliated even more if Sanji moves faster without Law's teleportation help.

 

[Chaves]

I think they're stronger. They have a more impressive scorecard.

• 108 Pound Cannon
  • Oars dodged Zoro's 108 Pound Cannon admitting that it could have cut him up pretty badly.
  • Zoro combined it with Luffy's G2 Jet Bazooka and Sanji's Diable Jambe Mouton Shot against a Pacifista.
• Nigori-Zake
  • It overpowered Kaku's Bigan
  • It cut off Oars fang

Both of the above accomplishments supersede defeating Ryuma (an opponent Zoro didn't even out on his bandana for).

That said, I'll tentatively place Hiryuu Kaen above Shi ShiShi Sonson. @Haoshoku.

Well, but I think you understand me when I said "same stage"

For example, I think Kong Rifle> Leo Bazooka> Kong Gatling> Kong Organ> Double Culverin> Rhino Schneider

Does this mean that rhino shcneider is a low-medium attack in Luffy's arsenal? No. All of these attacks are around the same stage of power.

Ryuma was a formidable opponent whose attacks like rashomon and 72PH did not work on him, and Zoro himself said that his swords were almost breaking. Hyryu kaen transmits a flying dragon aura in addition to transmitting blue flames, something totally different in Zoro's arsenal, I particularly think this attack is superior to nigorizake, but I find it useless to have this discussion if we agree that these attacks are high tier from Zoro's arsenal.

 

[bennbeckman]

Because he wouldn't need Law's help to land his attacks due to his slowness, this is a team battle. Zoro would be humiliated even more if Sanji moves faster without Law's help.

Ill give you another chance... Why is this "left hand man on the roof"? Great job NOT answering the question the first time around

 

[nik87]

Then I'm glad you do not care about.



Wdym, Luffy's ID clearly allows him to injure Kaido. He just lacks the strength to injure him for good, which can be solved with G4th attack mode or something like that.



No.



That's no argument; Kaido screamed as well when Law hit him with mere rocks.



And he is not feeling it from Kidd as well.
As I said, this is also irrelevant because he sure has something to injure Kaido.



I agree.



No, it didn't.

Did Kidd drew blood from Kaido or why do you think Kidd slamming Kaido between his fists did something?



Kidd doesn't even have to wait for that since technically he can gain certain abilities from his magnetism which would allows him to bypass Kaido's skin.



Of course his offense is performing badly. That ain't nothing new.
We're talking about the same dude who just took a GK in his belly and was still fine. You know, the technique which almost killed Doflamingo, one of the strongest high tiers?



Of course it does something for his offense; it proves that Bound Man's durability + barrier haki is already powerful enough to no sell Kaido's boro breath. Bound Man's offense is even stronger than his defense, that's a fact - due to the tensile force.
We can literally see how Bound Man punched Dragon Kaido a few meters away with Kong Rifle and drew good amount of blood from the latter. The only issue is the fact that it's still superficial.

All of that without considering a possible G4th attack mode or even G5.

Why is tanking the borobreath complete BS? Base Luffy, despite barely avoiding the full hit, still took a Thunder Bagua and he still was perfectly fine.

His seastone training pushed his physicals drastically. He was literally restrained 24/7 and still trained effectively with it. It's like the Hyperbolic Time Chamber in DBZ.
Hence that's the only logical conclusion why Luffy can tank Kaido's attacks now. Also, barrier haki is still a thing as well.



Be careful, if you keep crying about Oda babysitting Luffy, you could end up replacing Master of Haki from the Crying 6. :yasu:



I always listen to logic but the thing is... Logic and you is like oil and water, that does not fit at all.

The thing is that it seems he didnt use haki blast to defend against it and thats why it's BS because he no sold Borobreath just because... If he did use it, my bad and dont worry abt me surpassing the Crying Six, lol. You know that's impossible.
Also, if you listened to the guy who is like oil and water with logic, you wouldn't need manga to tell you the difference between Zoro's and Luffy's offense. :yasu: I mean, I dont mind you waiting for manga but it isn't polite to let people wait for years just because some things seem illogical to you, no?

 

[Blother Fertitta]

Legit lmfao
Queen would've been wrecked if Zoro was serious

Image what would've happened to Apoo..lmfao

Apoo was not even a pebble in his path.
yet they put Apoo above Zoro...

 

[WesMidnight]

Edit: Why isnt this "Left hand man" you speak of on the roof?

Because then it wouldn't be too much of an underdog fight having 1 low top tier Luffy and 5 high tiers vs 2 mid top tiers.
Also it would embarrass Law and Kid too much, and ruin the SN dynamic.
Let's wait till other villains join the roof first. I'm guessing King and Queen will be the first to arrive.

 

[Blother Fertitta]

Because unlike Zoro, Sanji wouldn't need Law's help to land his attacks due to his slowness, this is a team battle you know.

Zoro would be humiliated even more if Sanji moves faster without Law's teleportation help.

Do you enjoy dropping autistic and unfunny messages?

 

[Bogard]

Based on this chapter, Luffy and Zoro alone can defeat Dragon Form Kaido quite comfortably.

All of Kaido's attacks can be easily neutralised:

• Zoro can easily deflect Kaido's Destructive Wind
• Zoro can easily cut through Boro Breath with Homurasaki
  • If prepared, Luffy can also withstand Boro Breath
• Luffy is immune to Kaido's lightning, and given that it's not living lightning, it can be easily dodged
  • The Scabbards could react to Kaido's lightning but not Destructive Wind. Given that Zoro could react to Destructive Wind, the lightning wouldn't be a problem for him.

They have the offensive ability to fuck him over:

• Zoro's Hiryuu Kaen terrified Big Mom and Kaido chose to dodge it despite enthusiastically tanking all other attacks.
  • Zoro has attacks much stronger than Hiryuu Kaen:
    • Nigori-Zake
    • 1080 Pound Cannon
    • Ichidai Sanzen Daisen Sekai
• Luffy can help set up Zoro's most powerful techniques by disorienting or restraining Kaido
• Luffy has Future Sight to warn Zoro about any attacks/easily evade himself, but based on this chapter it wouldn't even be needed.

If Kaido is restricted to Dragon Form only (no Base or Hybrid), I don't see how he does not get mid diffed by Luffy and Zoro. Dragon Kaido has no successful attack in this chapter, and all his known attacks would be useless against this duo.

They might actually bring him down without taking significant damage. This is making me seriously reconsider where Dragon Kaido stands in the power hierarchy. It's kind of weird to suggest that Luffy and Zoro will mid diff any other prime top tier.

I'll make the thread when the chapter drops, but I want to hear takes.


@Haoshoku, @Sentinel, @playa4321, @ShinmenTakezo, @comrade, @Admiral Lee Hung, @ShishioIsBack, @LANJI CUCKSMOKE, @Geo, @HA001, @Bogard, @Red Admiral, @MarineHQ62, @Luffy is the mc

There is nothing surprising about it considering Luffy is a low top tier by himself, which is where dragon Kaido is imo judging by the difference in portrayal comparatively to base Kaido against the Scabbards

So with Luffy already in that tier, it's no wonder that they could beat him up if we added Zoro's lethality in the mix. Infact I think there is a chance Luffy could solo dragon Kaido considering he basically dodged or countered most of his attacks by himself, and pummeled him, possess lvl3 hardening that allow him to damage Kaido even with g3, possess FS allowing him to dodge even the faster Kaido's base thunder bagua speed from short distance, is immune to thunder attacks, can block(with barrier haki) / tank Kaido's fire attacks

With that said, I think there are some mistakes in your reasoning

- Zoro usually uses itoryu(shi shi son son) over Santoryu when he wants to cut durable materials. It's what happened with Daz Bones, Kaku, Kuma or the PH dragon

- We already saw a Santoryu attack failing on Kaido before Zoro decided to release more of Enma's power, which allows Zoro to land much more devastating attacks than his other blade by allowing his haki to be drained by the blade(hence him panting after the effort)

- It's implied in this chapter that Kaido prefers to tank attacks when BM advice him to dodge Zoro's, so if Kaido starts dodging attacks, it might not be easy for Zoro to land attacks even in Dragon form

- Kaido's attention is shared between 5 opponents, it's not the same thing if all Kaido's attacks were focused on a single person

 

[Don DaSlayer]

Zorohaters are down bad bad. Its Sad look at them crying. They need some Copium. Oda not showing love to them destroying their headcanons. Sad

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

Luffy's G3 was stronger than Asura, it's not suddenly going to be in G4 level.

Also saying that Asura one-shotted Kaku is retarded as well, that's ignoring every damage Kaku has taken in that battle, Zoro clearly cut Kaku before hitting him with Asura.

@HA001 look above at this thinking Ashura wouldn't be G4 level yet low level Zoro attacks got Youkous sweating. @Erkan12 Lol 😆

 

[Cinera]

Another thread I want to make when spoilers drop is a Hiryuu Kaen gauntlet.

Who's the strongest character that Hiryuu Kaen can oneshot?
Round 1: characters take the attack clean without any defense.
Round 2: characters can block but are not allowed to dodge.
Conditions: Zoro gets a full restore in each round.

Gauntlet

1. Vergo
2. Hybrid Page One
3. Hybrid Drake
4. Cracker (in his biscuit armour)
5. Jack
6. Doflamingo
7. Queen
8. Tankman
9. Jozu
10. Issho
11. Big Mom
12. Sakazuki
13. Dragon!Kaido

If you think I should reorder the gauntlet or have suggestions for characters to add (and at which positions to add them), let me know.

My Thoughts
Round 1
Zoro probably stops at Big Mom or if not her, then definitely Sakazuki. The Chadkazuki tanked two bloodlusted strikes from the World's Strongest Man while off guard and was still kicking. As powerful and lethal as Hiryuu Kaen is, I don't see it putting down Sakazuki.

Round 2
I feel like Zoro stops at Issho. As a top tier, he should be able to at least block such an attack from Zoro (especially aided by his Gravity Fruit). It would be disappointing if he couldn't do that much.

A Doffy Defense with God Thread and Spider Web may be more formidable than what Queen can muster, but it wouldn't change the final result. Hiryuu Kaen slices through Doffy's strings and takes him out.