[FNZ] Role Madness Round 08: Tokyo Ghoul

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D

Dragomir

Your argument that we should lynch don because he has been unhelpful is beyond my understanding.

Many players here are new and don't know how to pick reads. They rely on info sharing to catch Scums. Expecting from such players to contribute more in no claim game that too on first day of the game is beyond my understanding.

Also, there is huge list of inactive and more unhelpful players - playa, rej, all red, rayan, yo tan wa and few more. Picking on ha and don from amongst them is just wild case of lynching which has no basis.

Second, in every game there are few highly active Townie, few relatively less townie and few inactive townie. Scums try to blend among them.

Our purpose isnt to weed out those who aren't helpful. Why? Because it's like shooting in the blind and helping scums reduce townie Numbers.

Our purpose is to scum hunt and catch player who is makin slips because that's what lynch is about.

Now I am not saying that inactive or less helpful players can't be scum. But it's better to invest them First or wait for more day activities to be sure of whether they are Scums laying low key or just bad townie who aren't contributing.




To me, scum hunting isn't just about catching Scums but also to avoid mislynch as much as possible. Celestia made very prominent slips and I will prefer her Lynch.


Now she can flip in any direction(most likely a scum) but since the time I casted vote on her - every single activity happened in this thread after that is a clue in itself.

Who stayed low key, who took the back seat, who is voting whom, who said what, which side is one taking, and so on.... everythin matters since that time and that's how you build reads by lynching a player who is makin slips which isn't possible in case of randomly lynching an inactive or less helpful player.





@Bogard @TheAncientCenturion why you guys took the back seat after going after each other on First half of day one?
Reborn out here playing mafia as if he's had 5 years of experience :myman:
 
Gonna give my reads briefly. And they will be brief in word count too.
Wouldn't it be safe for no lynch since no claim in this game?
No. We need info. The best way to gain info is on our terms, the town's. If we allowed Mafia to have the initiative, we don't get the full scope of interactions. We see only what they want us to see.


Last time your reads about players playstyle was on point, i will consider Kiwi a possible scum for nw.

1. @Don DaSlayer
2. @LANJI CUCKSMOKE
3. @Finalbeta
9. @Rej
11. @playa4321
12. @All_Red
Give us your opinion guys.

16. @NeutralWatcher you are bit more inactive than last time(?)
18. @Seraphoenix what are your readings so far.
Short read on Yo Tan. I think he's real solid. Not many posts but I think the fact he's giving voluntary reads and putting himself out there is a good start.

I watched the first three and basically:
-The Main Character seems to be the only half-ghoul
-He is helped by full ghouls
-There is also a 'bad' ghoul who tries to kill the MC and his friend
-The MC's best friend is a human
-There are also police who hunt ghouls though some of them are made to look like bad guys

So there is space for mafia and a lot of indies imo based on what I watched so far.
I'll first have to read all 14 pages

I hope there is something worthwhile in so many pages:kaidowhat:


Jesus Tac can't catch a break :ihaha:
If you read what I said carefully, you would see I was asking if you sus Bogard for pushing a lynch D1. I never said you sussed him. Read what someone says carefully or they will think you are deliberately lying.
Okay I skimmed through most of it as there was a lot of repetition.

So far I like what I saw from Queen and Celestia. Queen in particular for throwing cold water on the idea that the Bogard vs TAC interaction is automatically town vs town. If they are smart or experienced players they would know that a D1 fight like that is likely to be construed as town v town as most are doing here. It's risky sure, but impossible? no way.

Not really a fan of what I've seen from Dragomir. His tldr of when people bus in particular is off. Anything is possible in mafia and experienced players know the common strategies and how to subvert expectations. If you are thinking 'scum wouldn't do that' then you've identified a viable strategy for mafia to use. Also didn't like how Dragomir skirted around Celestia's response to him.

I think TAC is town. I sense the same indignation from the last game. Being upset is natural @Reborn if you are town and continually sussed on flimsy reasons.

I don't know what to think about Bogard. I want to think he is town but he took it a bit too far imo. D1 is always coinflippy and I don't see any real benefit for TAC to be lying about the length of the day phase? Like what benefit does scum get from that? Is it likely that he just didn't read the OP carefully? yes. Hell I personally skim read them most of the time.
The purpose is to determine if you are using the same reasoning as yesterday. I would expect that you sus Bogard because he wants a D1 lynch. Same way you sussed me last game for not minding a D1 lynch.
You are lying because you said I said that you sussed Bogard. In reality I asked the question 'Did neutral sus Bogard?'

Here I specifically asked if Neutral has sussed Bogard for D1 lynch as in the last game he sussed me because I was okay with a D1 lynch. I would expect that he also sussed Bogard here.

He then responds with the message saying that I said he sussed Bogard. Which is obviously untrue as I asked if he did. I didn't say he did.




So yes it makes sense that I accused you of lying because I never said you sussed Bogard. I was asking if you did. If you didn't then it differs from last game where you were town and were adamant that a D1 lynch is scummy. Now in this game you are asking people if D1 lynch is okay? Why ask if last game it helped you catch me when I was scum?
I really like Sera this game. He's noticing inconsistencies in a player who hasn't done/said much and presented them to NW. And NW's response seemed very off to me. Whether deliberate or otherwise, NW strikes me as more panicked / worried that Sera has them in his sights. And it's a good case build up too.


@Queen I still don’t trust you from the last game you fooled me

:pagemoji:
I’ve been quite bc i have to read the last 8 pages.
7or 8 scums is wayy to much.:attachpol:

He keeps fucking up on the first day smh.Just like in the last one.


Always the most inactive players are mafia.
Drago says that you are mafia!
[
Already a vote on TAC that a dumb move. All I got to say is that killers move in silence. Most of them don’t talk alot. People who don’t speak to much they are sus to me!
Tell that to Bogard.:smithnie:
For now i think that the Tac/Bogard beef is stupid as shit cuz they both seem townie to me. For the others idk.



Aayy Who started this Don is scum thing?:zorothink:
Was it you Celestia? You are calling me scum/bad for ignoring the Bogard/TAC feud.
There isn't much to say. Don is a total blank in terms of actual contributions. Like Lanji but to a lesser extent, because he's. . Consistent, but it's not good either way. Most of Don's posts do not add anything. They do not encourage discussion. They simple sit, and allow Don to say he's here. Don, if this is your true town play style, I think you need to be more proactive.

It's not even like he pops in to take a side, from what I've seen. Don is just here. So he's not trying to steer conversation, even subtly. But he's persisting in posting / being a more active player (as far as I've seen) than most. Sooo.... Why? What's his angle, if he's not going to really talk that much? I don't think I quoted a majority of his replies, I think I stopped. But this gives us a good sample of what he's doing and what we can expect in future days. Bottom line is; Don isn't helping town out.

In a game like Mafia where the only way we can understand who is and isn't against us, is activity and conversation. So, just from you participating in the game but not doing much, soft-forms an opinion for me.

You give us nothing but talk constantly, so I need to automatically push you in a negative light. Not locking you in. But letting you know that you need to change it up for Day 2.


With big setup it is flexible for host to add anything
We can even have a cult as anti town but I am not sure if it fits the theme lol
Also the reasons bogard pushing TAC seems forced to me
Like the whole argument about someone reading or not reading the op
I don't see how you conclude someone's alignment on that or the exchange


Care to contribute yourself :) ?

U sound like u just commenting and chilling
I can't call this contribution but then I guess u are new

Reading or skipping over something how is that much important to be AI ?
They seem forced yea why he so agitated about something small
I read the posts and he acting like TAC slipped or something

Seems like a bad case to me. And u supporting it why ?
There is still a lot of time Day phase is long and ppl will show up eventually ofc u can sus ppl who trying to stay lowkey but u mentioned this twice so far let's move on to something like
What about the players who are active rn ?
Forced doesn't necessarily means fake
He is using trivial thing against someone and think he caught them slipping
Try looking into others then ;) instead of repeating the same stuff
I didn't say they are fake but he overdoing it
His case is weak and he seemed eager to jump on something trivial
Again it is not about being genuine he could be scum or town for all I know faking his sus or not it is weak case
I explained already what make it forced you seems like u ignoring my posts and just wanna focus on the word forced
It was weak and forced to me cuz he kept on being aggressive on him for something small and then when tac responds he is like I was joking but u now seems sus
Seemed like whatever TAC gonna reply he had set his mind on him being scum

Also wth drago I am not native why you still going on about how they are antonyms I already said what I mean yet you still go back to this
Cinera and Yon Tan Wa said the same word why you ain't making a big thing of it
What are you trying to achieve ? Cuz it don't look good at all this approach

Bogard is either a excited town who is overdoing it or a flop scum who thought it was a good case and went with being aggressive
He didn't post much out of that I can't say which I am more leaning on yet


I didn't put Bogard as scum yet
But you know in a long phase 48 what is said early actually might not be more memorable from my experience things gets heated when it is closer to day end and anything will get more attention and might cost in a lynch toward the end

Like I said before I don't like why Bogard is pushing TAC it seems so trivial

Bogard could either be town/scum maybe after last game he thought that TAC might be easy mislynch and went for that or he thought genuinely he caught him slipping

Still the case and narrative is bad
Tac on the other hand I didn't see anything bad about what he said this game I am more leaning towards him being town, I understands where his frustrations is coming from

scum would more likely ignore the accusations and won't bother with arguing this much
But there could also be possibility about him not being town but for now I am more convinced by his reactions
from what I heard he got lynched day 1 last game cuz of unnecessary arguments? if he is also a town in this game then he ofc will be mad about same thing happening to him it seems more genuine he mentioned it
U saying it is scummy move don't have much logic in it, why you think that ?
I didn't say he was scum.
I lean towards Nana being town. She seems active and ready to engage when she's here, questioning Lanji (once or twice IIRC) about his own silence. Part of it might be because I feel like she understands my issues with Bogard to a T (much like Drago) and is reinforcing them. But she isn't going so far as to condemn Bogard either, at least what I've seen. She keeps her mind open about both of us but says the reason we're arguing is dumb.

This is a leveled response and I appreciate that. She concisely gave her views on the topic while wrapping it up.



I saw that long post by you but still
losing composure ain't a scum thing to do only a lot of players town or scum rage quit or become annoyed
and to me Bogard pressure ain't even built on good reasons their back and forth is about something tiny and not related to the game much


If he was scum then yea posting early in a long phase isn't as much important as if he pulled this later when things gets heated and I said this already in my post ..

I will do my reads soon, I just woke up

Wbu ? What your reads so far ?
HA001 - neutral
I mostly skimmed through some of his posts , mostly it is all about TAC vS Bogard I don't see anything of good substance to his posts

Don Slayer - Bad
very random comments and none of his posts are beneficial to the game asked him to focus on the active players more and tell me his thoughts on them

just repeating what everyone think about the T vs B and not bothering to engage in the game or tell anything on other players even after this post

Rayan - only 2 posts don't have much read on him

Neutralwatcher - bad
from what I saw he isn't involved much in the game and seems like reply only when ppl question him or tag him

Sera - seems good so far from seeing his posts

more to come
it is not about ignoring or not have u not read what i said u only posted when someone quoted or mentioned u even now me
u ain't involving yourself in the game

look at their posts
don is not doing anything beneficial to the game while being online and just dropping unrelated comments
HA isn't doing much but he isn't being very random like Don

because I think so
Lanji - not much from him but his overall posts sounds relaxed / leaning town
All red - I played with her 2 games once she was scum with no activity and the other town and very active / so based on meta I am leaning more towards her not being town for now if she posts more some stuff can change
Queen - pretty much her posts about Tac and Bogard being scums ( I do see possibility for scums to fight in the game but this fight ain't like they are faking it) will put her on neutral side for now
Playa - I don't have much thoughts on him
Yo Tan Wa - presenting his opinions and ain't afraid to engage with others , leaning town
Drago - something is off with him, I don't like how he kept on ignoring my posts and nagging me about a word when my posts were clear
he sused x players then goes back and change his mind on them being inconsistent when it comes to reads, and clearing ppl immediately without doing anything that suggest them being town
Reborn - all he does is asking ppl questions, could be anything from town to a wolf trying to control stuff
FB and Kiwi - seems like town to me rn

my opinion didn't change much about Bogard or Tac
I can't remember if you made any stalwart stance on Bogard and I. Could you repeat that, if you did?

Also, on your reads as a whole in this section of my quotes;

Agreed with your reviews of Sera / Yo Tan Wa. Both give townie vibes from me. Yo Tan is very open whereas Sera is going after NW for discrepencies he's spotted and NW's response hasn't thrilled me.

Don also seems odd to me. But his play style is this, so it's tough to read. Either way, I don't have him as townie right now. Finalbeta still feels weird to me. He's not as aggressive as usual, so I don't want to instantly call him town either. Kiwi picked up the pace so I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt here.

I am not beating around the bush :choppawhat: if u want ppl to follow your plan u gotta do it yourself that's what I said

who u gonna vote ?

I am not in favor of no lynch, we can't waste a 48h in the end so we don't lynch anyone cuz ppl wanna do it safely
it is you who beating around the bush I just don't like why you except everyone to agree with u when u don't follow on it and lmao why i would say something similar to u ?

if anything u should stop being stubborn and cooperate with others more
and for answer I sus Rej and All Red rn the most but since both inactives I would rather we deal with them at night and for lynch either HA , Don
Why would you lump Ha0 with Don? We have more reason to suspect Don. He's a more experienced Mafia player, albeit by a few more games. He's been around talking consistently since Day 1 and hasn't tried to contribute anything. I give Ha0 more benefit of the doubt since this is his second time playing a game of this genre, total. Besides, you think Ha0 is neutral and Don is bad. So you should want Don gone more.


irc I watched the movie but I dont know much on tokyo ghoul
there was a live action one
tacs comment
"Well, I read the OP post but I got really confused when the poster above mentioned a 48 hour day phase."

bogards
"At the beginning, i was only joking, but i find it suspicious that he decided to ask a less experienced mafia player about mafia setup instead of believing what he presumably read in opening posts, and then later on turning back the clock into claiming he didn't read it at all. "
not what he claimed at all. irc a bit scarred from last day 1:josad: but its a bit weird.
reborn plays a bit aggressive to like bogard is doing rn but am interested to see why bogard claimed tac backtracked on reading D1 info.
talk about dejavu
lmao
20 people and a lot of inactives in the chat
where you at tho

So the closest Lanji gets to an opinion on this matter is parroting me but doing so in a lackadaisical manner. "Oh well, Bogard said this about TAC and it wasn't true. HOW WEIRD." as if waiting to see if this line of thinking would gain more momentum. It doesn't help that the other comments up until this point are not... Important in the least?

Note: I quoted most but not all of Lanji's comments. So maybe I missed something that was slightly more pertinent to the game, but I don't believe I did. Early on, Lanji seems to talk to talk and "be there" and has no real major swing on Bogard and I's arguments. At best, he lazily takes my side to float the idea of Bogard being scum, but doesn't pursue it much.


the slip or where tac said he didnt read a section only a misunderstanding was brought up. bogard is playing like I did on day one last game.
tac asked neutral a question
bogard insist he is a scum hiding that by acting like a noob
tac says he read the op but misunderstood something that neutral might have had head on.
bogard insist tac is playing noob , also insist tac claims to have read and backtracked on the reading the info for day 1.
problem is tac only said he misunderstood it.
tac might have played scum a bit too much in this game for players to trust him lmao.
:jordanmf:
do note there is currently a lynch on tac.
So slightly more "game looking" posts, but again. He does not take a side. He spits the facts, but not his views on what's happening around him. There's no greater inference or decision to take part of a conversation. He's just there. In Mafia, especially a game like this, I feel like there shouldn't be a reason to pass up on your opinions. Unless you're trying to pull some 190 IQ move and trap scum in some argument, which I doubt from Lanji (no offense) then why is he more on the timid side?

Again.. Tagging people but not contributing.


Dont think either bogard or tac are scums
it reminds me an awful lot of my reaction last game . Not particularly unhappy with the vote on tac, wondering why bogard implied tac backtracked on reading the op in the first place.
I dont think a scum would push as hard as bogard is right now tho. I did iterate I was going to be a lot calmer this game and thats exactly what am doing.
tldr they both come across as townies for now.


Not so sure what to think of celestia yet.
my reads arent exactly gospel
neither is it something am 100% on
but thats what I lean on. doesnt mean the other possibility isnt there but its unlikely based on this
" this is role madness , drawing attention to yourself makes a target for investigative role . my read on both as I have said before are both townies."
Second time he mentions that Bogard is being like him last game. They're both wrong about me, but I don't think it's similar in the least. Lanji had more of a reason to suspect me.

So we get the first bit of concrete info, he now thinks we're both townie... I think this is after Dragomir mentions it, so it's a safe opinion. So far almost nobody has accused Drago of not being town, so I take this less as Lanji coming around and more trying to blend in with popular opinion.


You should absolutely vote on every day if there's a sufficient suspicion that has been built on a player. has there been one in this game?
Not as of yet.
Primary sus rn is serapheonix combined with a low activity and the back and forth with neutral and a sudden lynch .
I find NW much more sus than Sera, based on their interaction. Seems like Sera was just asking for a reason why NW's views changed games and NW deliberately took the conversation in another direction. I don't get what you mean by low activity when Sera's been pretty good with reads / commentary in regards to the NW discussion, sussing out an inconsistency and pursing it.

There are other players quieter that you could go after, if low activity is what you were really worried about.


give us your reads first
lmao
what d you think?
I gave mine earlier in response to reborn's in an earlier comment .
celestia word choice on placing a vote on ha001
if she's townie she isnt willing to collaborate at all
and her reason for insisting on a lynch on a neutral player over a bad read is sketchy as well. Not much else to analyze.
general comment *
we dont know who the other townies are so depending on someone else to give you a breakdown is lazy.
Be sure to check previous post as much as you can. we have discussed 27 pages worth of info and I keep getting asked info on reads I have giving before. The exact same reason why people feel others are parroting the same opinion by more experienced players is in large part due to players here not willing to sift through 27 pages of info.
being a good player here requires you to detect slight slips , inconsistency and all of that can be seen if you just take time to read through all post. Dont hop on pg 27 and keep asking for info that been given 2 pages prior.
It just feels very off how much you're talking and how you don't contribute much. Any reads you give are so very short lived and barely without any reason to give them substance. They have no legs to walk, just "hmmm. I sus Sera. Or, maybe Nana."

For your activity in this game (as in the rate of being around / posts) you seem to be doing an awful lot of nothing. Which does not mesh well with your prior game, in my experience, where Day 1 you were very active and inquired on most players. IDK if you changed because of your botched lynch or if that's just going to be your cover for a mixed up meta. I just don't like your mouth running and nothing coming out of it. Nor do I like your reads on Nana/Sera, who I read as town as of now.
 
So; For Mafia I have a bit of a more gradient style view on scum and how I pursue them. Let me just give you the quick legend.

100% TownieI have proof they are a townie or the logic behind them being anything else is beyond the pale
TownieSomeone who's game play strongly reflects a townie for me. But I am not willing to overlook odd things about them.
Leaning TownNeutral-ish positive. Players who I have no reason to sus as bad based on their limited actions, and I presume to be town for the time being. But it's a weak thought.
Leaning ScumNeutral-ish negative. Someone who I think is suspicious for one reason or another. I have no immediate good reason to vote them or to build a case, but I keep my eye on them
Suspicious Player Someone who I am fairly certain is scum of some variety. I would be happy to vote them off if I had no better options. Not someone I'd immediately go to TO vote off though.
Scum Basically someone whose actions are so blatant there is no other reason to them.

__________________________________________________
My Reads:

Dragomir
Cinera
Seraphoenix

Celestia
Kiwi
Yo Tan Wan

Jew D. Boy
Ha0

Reborn
Finalbeta

Queen
Don

Rej
Playa
All Red
Rayan
Neutral Watcher
Lanji

Bogard

I'm on the fance for Queen/Final Beta. I guess you could swap them in either direction. Most of the Leaning Scum are inactives who I have no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt for. Better to start off skeptical. Neutral Watcher seems very off based on his exchange with Seraphoenix, Lanji's different play style and lack of any real views puts him there for me too. We all know why I want Bogard gone.

I hope this tiered system makes sense. Suspicious = / = auto mean scum for me.
 
@Bogard @TheAncientCenturion why you guys took the back seat after going after each other on First half of day one?
I want to clarify something real quick;

I am not going to return to that argument with Bogard unless I truly have to. Both sides have said our thoughts on it, and we're at a crucial impasse where Bogard thinks I am scum for not rescinding my declaration of dishonesty cast against him. And I see no reason to give Bogard the leniency for his interpretation given how he's played.

So I don't think I will entertain this argument anymore. I hope you understand that.
 

Reborn

~~Surpass Your Limits, Right here, Right now~~
So; For Mafia I have a bit of a more gradient style view on scum and how I pursue them. Let me just give you the quick legend.

100% TownieI have proof they are a townie or the logic behind them being anything else is beyond the pale
TownieSomeone who's game play strongly reflects a townie for me. But I am not willing to overlook odd things about them.
Leaning TownNeutral-ish positive. Players who I have no reason to sus as bad based on their limited actions, and I presume to be town for the time being. But it's a weak thought.
Leaning ScumNeutral-ish negative. Someone who I think is suspicious for one reason or another. I have no immediate good reason to vote them or to build a case, but I keep my eye on them
Suspicious Player Someone who I am fairly certain is scum of some variety. I would be happy to vote them off if I had no better options. Not someone I'd immediately go to TO vote off though.
Scum Basically someone whose actions are so blatant there is no other reason to them.

__________________________________________________
My Reads:

Dragomir
Cinera
Seraphoenix

Celestia
Kiwi
Yo Tan Wan

Jew D. Boy
Ha0

Reborn
Finalbeta

Queen
Don

Rej
Playa
All Red
Rayan
Neutral Watcher
Lanji

Bogard

I'm on the fance for Queen/Final Beta. I guess you could swap them in either direction. Most of the Leaning Scum are inactives who I have no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt for. Better to start off skeptical. Neutral Watcher seems very off based on his exchange with Seraphoenix, Lanji's different play style and lack of any real views puts him there for me too. We all know why I want Bogard gone.

I hope this tiered system makes sense. Suspicious = / = auto mean scum for me.
I must say that's quite impressive detailed read you have given especially if I assume that you are uninformed townie and this day being just day one.



Anyway, lanji case seem Worth exploring more.


However, I have few questions for you.

you have placed Celestia in townie read (someone whose game strongly reflect twonie).

Question 1)have you build your read on Celestia and placed her as townie after reading the case build on her by me and drago on page 28? If yes, then expand on it

Question 2) if no, then I am curious what you think about what I and drago said about her on page 28? Do you after reading our cases on her still see her strong townie?


Question 3) why you sus queen and finalbeta?
 
@TheAncientCenturion Celestia has recently gained some incrimination coming several sides. Reborn and I have both made our cases. Since you town read her, could you check out those cases and tell me what you think? They're on this page btw.
I find Reborn's phrasing to be a little dishonest / not fully encompassing tbh.
You start as random posting nothing much to note
She didn't define everything Ha0 posted as random like Reborn made it sound. Just his immediate posts. She has it split into sections with commentary compatible to them. She doesn't refer to anything from him as random again nor did she use the random context as her new reasoning for going after Ha0.

The reason she is suspicious of Ha0 is because of his posts not contributing—same reason I don't have full confidence in Don—but broadens her reasoning based on Ha0's inconsistencies. Such as being sus of Bogard, so she says, but voting for her immediately. To me, it seems like Nana is just holding Ha0 to a higher standard despite this being just his second game. It's understandable on paper for her to go after Ha0, especially if she reread the thread and saw this pattern with him. I disagree with her results though, Ha0 hasn't hit me as scum.

Just a little bit extra I checked; Nana's post regarding her neutral standard on Ha0 was from 9 AM Eastern time to her push on Ha0 in her larger synopsis a page ago at 3 PM. That's what, 5/6 hours difference and seemingly Nana reread the thread to pull early quotes from Ha0? It's more than enough time for Nana to change her stance and seemingly, she reread content that would lend credence to the idea that she isn't just going for an easy lynch.

It seems like shallow reasons to go after her.

____

For your player salad, I'm going back in the quotes and the furtherest I get without having to heavy into it is this;
celestia is willing placing a vote on a player who hasnt done much
yet has a bad read on another one?
How does that make any sense.
So it seems like this comment;

I said I am up to lynch any of them
Is between a small group of players? Potentially just 2? If that is the case, then this doesn't feel like Player Salad like you described. She's willing to lynch any of [the players she suspects] that seem to be previously outlined.

Player Salad according to Drago said:
A [player] salad is when a player in the game gives a pool of people that they are ok with lynching. A majority of that pool is filled with half-assed scum reads that the said player has hardly even interacted with or looked into. This is a scumtell because it is used by wolves as a way to fall back in case their main target isn't working. If the first person they're tryna mislync isn't garnering attention, then they can fall back on the rest of their pool and still try to appear as if they're cooperative and productive. Essentially, this is a way to keep a wolf comfortable and play it as safe as they can. Like I said earlier, the majority of these players they barely interact with and don't hard push at all. That's reserved for their main target. If town is looking to lynch someone else in their pool then the player will forget about their main target and fall back to that other player.

This is not a townie thing to do at all. Most townies are not focused on trying to collect as many suspects as they possibly can to lynch. No, instead they're trying to find one scum; they're trying to find one path and follow that path till it crumbles apart or that path ends up having a light at the end instead of darkness(light meaning town and darkness meaning scum). Reborn is doing that, I am doing that, Bogard is doing that(I'm using them as examples since I'm 98% sure that Reborn & Bogard are town).

Now as you can see, salads aren't that good. Now, you might ask: "Drago, but Celestia didn't list a pool of players though." You're right she didn't, but what she said in that question was pretty close. I said I am up to lynch any of them. That statement implies that she has a pool of players that she'd be ok with lynching. It's pretty unnecessary for her to state them out loud when the implication is right there.

Now, the only times a player salad would be ok would be during the late game when you're doing a process of elimination. You got players who aren't in your town core so you're down to get rid of them. That's reasonable. But as you can see, we're not in the late game. There is no reason to be doing player salads right now.

This is the 2nd time I caught Nana doing this. I'm willing to bet it's the 2nd time she's flipping scum too. Down with the scum!
Maybe because I'm not really familiar with stuff like this, but I strongly doubt what Nana's doing fits in with that definition. She has a limited number (I think 2) players she is willing to lynch and that seems narrowed down. If you suspect 2 people, would you not say something similar?
 
I find Reborn's phrasing to be a little dishonest / not fully encompassing tbh.

She didn't define everything Ha0 posted as random like Reborn made it sound. Just his immediate posts. She has it split into sections with commentary compatible to them. She doesn't refer to anything from him as random again nor did she use the random context as her new reasoning for going after Ha0.

The reason she is suspicious of Ha0 is because of his posts not contributing—same reason I don't have full confidence in Don—but broadens her reasoning based on Ha0's inconsistencies. Such as being sus of Bogard, so she says, but voting for her immediately. To me, it seems like Nana is just holding Ha0 to a higher standard despite this being just his second game. It's understandable on paper for her to go after Ha0, especially if she reread the thread and saw this pattern with him. I disagree with her results though, Ha0 hasn't hit me as scum.

Just a little bit extra I checked; Nana's post regarding her neutral standard on Ha0 was from 9 AM Eastern time to her push on Ha0 in her larger synopsis a page ago at 3 PM. That's what, 5/6 hours difference and seemingly Nana reread the thread to pull early quotes from Ha0? It's more than enough time for Nana to change her stance and seemingly, she reread content that would lend credence to the idea that she isn't just going for an easy lynch.

It seems like shallow reasons to go after her.

____

For your player salad, I'm going back in the quotes and the furtherest I get without having to heavy into it is this;

So it seems like this comment;



Is between a small group of players? Potentially just 2? If that is the case, then this doesn't feel like Player Salad like you described. She's willing to lynch any of [the players she suspects] that seem to be previously outlined.


Maybe because I'm not really familiar with stuff like this, but I strongly doubt what Nana's doing fits in with that definition. She has a limited number (I think 2) players she is willing to lynch and that seems narrowed down. If you suspect 2 people, would you not say something similar?
What inconsistencies ?

I said if i was pushed for a name i am sus of bogard

And i gave her every chance to explain herself yet she couldnt. And the vote on her has been explained too. If i just wanted to do a bandwagon vote on her id have done it when reborn did and dragomir agreed with him that would be the easy way out.
Yet shes continued to push the agenda with no real basis. At the end of it she may not scum but the way shes played the game has been shit.
 
I must say that's quite impressive detailed read you have given especially if I assume that you are uninformed townie and this day being just day one.
Thanks. I figured out how multi quote functioned thanks to Yo Tan, but I had to copy paste bits all around to organize it. So not everything will be 100% in order. I tried my best though.

Anyway, lanji case seem Worth exploring more.
Definitely. Him and Don need to talk more—based on what they say, I can be more confident on their standings.
Question 1)have you build your read on Celestia and placed her as townie after reading the case build on her by me and drago on page 28? If yes, then expand on it

Question 2) if no, then I am curious what you think about what I and drago said about her on page 28? Do you after reading our cases on her still see her strong townie?
I was aware Drago and you made a case against Nana, but I did not read it much before finishing my own post. More or less skimmed without looking into the details.

Yes. I still see her as town. I feel like with the potentially 6 hour difference between "Neutral" and "Bad" alongside Nana having gone back to earlier phases of the thread, we can chalk that up as a player changing their perspective more so than an inconsistency.

I feel like your "Random" bit is reaching, too.

Question 3) why you sus queen and finalbeta?
I feel like Beta isn't playing to his meta? Nothing more to say, usually he's a lot more aggressive as a scum hunter. He has a suspect within the first 24 hours, and in the elongated day phase, it feels like he's just been passing on info and giving his thoughts here or there. Could be wrong, I'll admit he wasn't my biggest focus on the reread.

Queen just feels off due to her lack of presence. She's a very smart person and a good player. I guess I just expect more activity / solid results from the better players, and when I don't see that, I have to wonder why. It could be for other reasons beyond them being scum, which is why they're both not solids in either camp.
 
What inconsistencies ?

I said if i was pushed for a name i am sus of bogard

And i gave her every chance to explain herself yet she couldnt. And the vote on her has been explained too. If i just wanted to do a bandwagon vote on her id have done it when reborn did and dragomir agreed with him that would be the easy way out.
Yet shes continued to push the agenda with no real basis. At the end of it she may not scum but the way shes played the game has been shit.
I guess I phrased that wrong. For her perceived inconsistencies? My mind went to you susing Bogard but voting her back in retaliation.
 

Reborn

~~Surpass Your Limits, Right here, Right now~~
I find Reborn's phrasing to be a little dishonest / not fully encompassing tbh.

She didn't define everything Ha0 posted as random like Reborn made it sound. Just his immediate posts. She has it split into sections with commentary compatible to them. She doesn't refer to anything from him as random again nor did she use the random context as her new reasoning for going after Ha0.

The reason she is suspicious of Ha0 is because of his posts not contributing—same reason I don't have full confidence in Don—but broadens her reasoning based on Ha0's inconsistencies. Such as being sus of Bogard, so she says, but voting for her immediately. To me, it seems like Nana is just holding Ha0 to a higher standard despite this being just his second game. It's understandable on paper for her to go after Ha0, especially if she reread the thread and saw this pattern with him. I disagree with her results though, Ha0 hasn't hit me as scum.

Just a little bit extra I checked; Nana's post regarding her neutral standard on Ha0 was from 9 AM Eastern time to her push on Ha0 in her larger synopsis a page ago at 3 PM. That's what, 5/6 hours difference and seemingly Nana reread the thread to pull early quotes from Ha0? It's more than enough time for Nana to change her stance and seemingly, she reread content that would lend credence to the idea that she isn't just going for an easy lynch.

It seems like shallow reasons to go after her.

____

For your player salad, I'm going back in the quotes and the furtherest I get without having to heavy into it is this;

So it seems like this comment;



Is between a small group of players? Potentially just 2? If that is the case, then this doesn't feel like Player Salad like you described. She's willing to lynch any of [the players she suspects] that seem to be previously outlined.


Maybe because I'm not really familiar with stuff like this, but I strongly doubt what Nana's doing fits in with that definition. She has a limited number (I think 2) players she is willing to lynch and that seems narrowed down. If you suspect 2 people, would you not say something similar?
First of all, Celestia push on Ha reflects inconsistency highlighted by inconsistency in her reasoning.

Second, she didn't have only two pool of sus.

HA001 - neutral
Don Slayer - Bad
Rayan - only 2 posts don't have much read on him
Neutralwatcher - bad
more to come
All red - I so based on meta I am leaning more towards her not being town
Queen - will put her on neutral side for now
Playa - I don't have much thoughts on him
Drago - something is off with him, I
Reborn - , could be anything from town to a wolf trying to control stuff
my opinion didn't change much about Bogard or Tac
Her willingness to Lynch ha whom she put in neutral category despite having more prominent sus doesn't make sense.

You don't go after lynch on neutral player unless that neutral player made some slips later on to change your stance which didn't happen in case of HA.

This not "I am fine with lynching anyone"going on here
 
I guess I phrased that wrong. For her perceived inconsistencies? My mind went to you susing Bogard but voting her back in retaliation.
Both of which have been explained.


And this hours difference in which she could have changed her mind on me from neutral to sus she herself never said that. According to her i didnt play any better from that point on (whatever that means) and thats why she sus me.
Ill be honest its giving me red flags how youve done that list. I get defending her fair enough but a lot of the board sus her actions and for you to put her that high up on the list with nothing putting you off on her does not sit right with me.
 
First of all, Celestia push on Ha reflects inconsistency highlighted by inconsistency in her reasoning.

Second, she didn't have only two pool of sus.




Her willingness to Lynch ha whom she put in neutral category despite having more prominent sus doesn't make sense.

You don't go after lynch on neutral player unless that neutral player made some slips later on to change your stance which didn't happen in case of HA.

This not "I am fine with lynching anyone"going on here
Well, look at the time of that post to when she's now accusing him. The post where she makes her big case on Ha0 is 6-ish hours later, that's plenty of time to change her mind. I don't think that's a big inconsistency. People can change their mind and it seems like she reread the thread, given her quotes from Ha0.

Again. I don't agree with her lynch myself. But I don't think she's scum. The Salad thing is a fair point, to an extent. I only encountered it one other time but I don't think that's what's happening here if she has a only 2 people she'd be happy to kill.
 
Both of which have been explained.


And this hours difference in which she could have changed her mind on me from neutral to sus she herself never said that. According to her i didnt play any better from that point on (whatever that means) and thats why she sus me.
Ill be honest its giving me red flags how youve done that list. I get defending her fair enough but a lot of the board sus her actions and for you to put her that high up on the list with nothing putting you off on her does not sit right with me.
I'm sorry you feel that way. Give me a page when your argument starts and I'll be happy to reread it, but from where I'm at now I do not think Celestia is bad.
 
D

Dragomir

@TheAncientCenturion her pool of lynches is definitely above two players.
HA001 - neutral
I mostly skimmed through some of his posts , mostly it is all about TAC vS Bogard I don't see anything of good substance to his posts

Don Slayer - Bad
very random comments and none of his posts are beneficial to the game asked him to focus on the active players more and tell me his thoughts on them


just repeating what everyone think about the T vs B and not bothering to engage in the game or tell anything on other players even after this post

Rayan - only 2 posts don't have much read on him

Neutralwatcher - bad
from what I saw he isn't involved much in the game and seems like reply only when ppl question him or tag him


Sera - seems good so far from seeing his posts

more to come
it is you who beating around the bush I just don't like why you except everyone to agree with u when u don't follow on it and lmao why i would say something similar to u ?

if anything u should stop being stubborn and cooperate with others more
and for answer I sus Rej and All Red rn the most but since both inactives I would rather we deal with them at night and for lynch either HA , Don
It's a minimum of 3. 6 if you wanna count her suspicion on Rej, Red, and me.
 

Reborn

~~Surpass Your Limits, Right here, Right now~~
We need to Lynch on day one to get info.

I hope everyone will cast vote today. We need reactions and to deduce voting pattern.


My vote will stay on celestia as to me she has made some prominent slips which I don't expect from an experienced player and I will prefer her Lynch over not so active don as it can give us better reads.
 
D

Dragomir

Both of which have been explained.


And this hours difference in which she could have changed her mind on me from neutral to sus she herself never said that. According to her i didnt play any better from that point on (whatever that means) and thats why she sus me.
Ill be honest its giving me red flags how youve done that list. I get defending her fair enough but a lot of the board sus her actions and for you to put her that high up on the list with nothing putting you off on her does not sit right with me.
I would make an argument that TAC going against the grain like this on Celestia gives him townie points, not the other way around.
 
@TheAncientCenturion her pool of lynches is definitely above two players.


It's a minimum of 3. 6 if you wanna count her suspicion on Rej, Red, and me.
HA001 - neutral
I mostly skimmed through some of his posts , mostly it is all about TAC vS Bogard I don't see anything of good substance to his posts

Don Slayer - Bad
very random comments and none of his posts are beneficial to the game asked him to focus on the active players more and tell me his thoughts on them

just repeating what everyone think about the T vs B and not bothering to engage in the game or tell anything on other players even after this post

Rayan - only 2 posts don't have much read on him

Neutralwatcher - bad
from what I saw he isn't involved much in the game and seems like reply only when ppl question him or tag him

Sera - seems good so far from seeing his posts

more to come
So we have a little less than 15 hours to continue. Is this a good post to go back and reread, then? If you include those players then yeah, she has a bit of a death list.
 
I would make an argument that TAC going against the grain like this on Celestia gives him townie points, not the other way around.
Its not the defending that i have a problem with ive already said thats fair enough. Its the way the list was layed out and high tac put her that seemed odd to me.
Youre mostly all more experienced on this game than i am so if yall did a list after reading through the play thats happened could you honestly put her that high up and be so adamant she isnt scum ? I know i couldn't.
Ive already said she may not be in the end but from an apparent experienced player her plays have been shit imo and its only raised sus on herself.
 

Cutty Jewboy

I Can Go Lower
I might be done for the night, so unless there’s more information that comes to light between now and when the day officially ends...

Vote Lynch Bogard, I just don’t think he had any basis for going after TAC and his full-throated defense just felt like empty fluff...he’s adamant about not being seen as a liar, but he’s fine going after others for comparatively flimsy reasons without building a case for why HE should be believed.
 
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