[FNZ] Role Madness Round 08: Tokyo Ghoul

[NeutralWatcher]

[QUOTE="NeutralWatcher, post: 375257, member: 619"
You haven't answered Reborn who said about you who said said Bogard pushed a bit too far with his lynch on TAC yet you did the same thing to me.

Scroll up before you start spreading more lies.[/QUOTE]
You didn't answer anything.

What is your defend for your inconsistency?

 

[Seraphoenix]

Yoru comments weren't clear. You accused me of lying for asking you why are you thinking I sus Bogard?

My answer was a logical deduction to your comment about me

I already explained you multiple times how it wasn't logical deduction.

It was invalid as the conclusion did not necessarily follow from your premises. This is known as a non-sequitur/ formal fallacy/ deductive fallacy etc. Basic logic.

 

[Seraphoenix]

to*

 

[Reborn]

Is this another TMI based read or how did you back up him being town?

playa interacted with me and it was quite towny imho


Yo Tan Wa is town too

My sus is on Reborn for now.


Can someone explain me Yo Tan Wa vs Kiwi?
@Kiwipom

@Yo Tan Wa

At least read my posts well guys

Lol!

That's quite surprising that you know my role especially when you called for my protection and sus drago for leading the Lynch lol

Over drago - your primary suspect? Lol


And, if you Know my role then you wouldn't be sussing me at all.

What are you saying?

You don't wanna lynch me?

Then why you sussed me? To get reactions?

I actually believe don da.

If he would have been scum then he would have tried to push my case instead of leaving in mid way by saying "I don't want to Lynch you but sussed you just to get reactions and protect myself"


He seem townie but somewhat not so bright lol

You can invest him further at night if you don't believe because 20 players game should feature atleast two invest.

I told you all that he doesn't seem to be lying.

If he would have been scum then he would have pushed my case but he didn't. He stopped in mid and said"he doesn't want to Lynch me but just want to get reactions"


It was undoubtedly not so smart but it can't be helped.

Meta isn't everything though. Meta can change.

Also, playa meta is hard to tell because most of the time he plays like that.

But based on his actions, playa doesnt seem to be sus as of now.


Also, don didn't play well and that's fact. He was quite on the borderline of being scummy for me as well so if other people found him sus then I don't think they can be blamed.

Infact, I still have doubts that was he actually a town aligned role cop because if he would be then he shouldn't be sussing me at all.

Also, he wanted to protect me but end up investing me? That's actually doesn't make sense.

It's only when he stopped pushing case in mid that I felt that he is townie.

So I doubt just looking up for people who sus don would be beneficial because they had reason.

However, I would like to Cross check timing and the way case has been pushed.


Kiwi seem fine to me based on how she played. She could be third party but not mafia. Well most likely she is townie.


Queen was also quite aggresive in Pushing the case and I don't think she could be scum.


My only concern here comes with cinera about whom I am not sure

From the beginning of this don claim controversy, I have questioned how he knows my role yet sussed me?

Also, I clearly said that it's only when he stopped sussing me in mid and said "he didn't want to Lynch me but just did to get reactions that I felt that he is most likely townie"

I believe don da could be townie based on how he stopped in mid. But I can have doubts on him being role cop invest because his whole purpose was to get reactions which could happen even with fake claim and not necessarily right claim

 

[NeutralWatcher]

I already explained you multiple times how it wasn't logical deduction.

It was invalid as the conclusion did not necessarily follow from your premises. This is known as a non-sequitur/ formal fallacy/ deductive fallacy etc. Basic logic.

Trying to dodge from answering your inconsistencies huh?

How is it invalid?

You asked: "Has Neutral sus Bogard?"
I replied: "Why are you thinking I sus Bogard?"
How come I was lying for asking the right question?

 

[Seraphoenix]

I have finally caught, have quoted many posts, will give my opinion on this soon.


Got it. Investigators can simply chck allignmnt, unlike last game we had tracker.

So i will make my case, this is an hypothesis bt i feel strongly about it nw, it has good chances of being true.

Only reason i can think of Sera(i consider him very rational player) targeting Neutral is Night 0, it was strucking me odd for Sera to target someone without even readin the posts and simply based on last match info. It was like creating sus when there is none by pushing players, since we can't make claims, hence i sus Neutral nw

Same feels about Bogard and Tac nw, in their arguments, the case itself doesn't appear to be strong for Bogard and Tac to me felt genuine, bout really not readin the 48 hours, bt i think that doesn't really clear Tac as Townie, he simply could be right about that argument n not reading it. Bt stil could be scum.

My only remaining doubt on this Is Bogard usually fights with Tac as mentioned by Playa, and Bogard first post, really didn't came as strong that he was already suspecting him due tk Night actions, rather jokingly mentioned if it was Tac scum move and i think Bogard also mentions it once that his suspect grew strong when Tac calls him liar. So I would drop it now, i probably did overthinking.

Unvote Tac @Noctis

Bt Having played with Sera last match, he is very rational thinker and if he is pushing Neutral as scum from get go, there's definitely something in it. Bt i think this is also something expected at the start of day, what Sera did was when 15 or something pages have already been discussed.

I will look more into their arguments.

To clear something up here, while I can be very rational I am not immune to acting personally. I can get tilted. Your best bet is to check whether my arguments are making sense.

 

[Seraphoenix]

Trying to dodge from answering your inconsistencies huh?

How is it invalid?

You asked: "Has Neutral sus Bogard?"
I replied: "Why are you thinking I sus Bogard?"
How come I was lying for asking the right question?

I am very close to flaming you for lack of comprehension. I will explain this for the last time. If you still can't understand after I've dumbed it down, then don't bother replying. We should stop this in any case as this argument might be construed as angle shooting.

My question was based on the last game where you tried to make some principle where if you were for a D1 lynch you were sus, I therefore asked whether you sussed Bogard to determine if you followed that same rule, as at that stage I didn't read the whole thread.

Do you understand that me asking whether you sussed Bogard was a question? Do you know what a question is? It is obviously not a statement is it? It is not "Neutral sussed Bogard" which your question to me : "Why are you thinking I sus Bogard?" implies. You made that leap, not me. It's a basic fallacy as the question does not in way imply a positive or a negative:

Sera: Did it rain today?yes or no?

Neutral :Why are you saying it rained today?
Me :

 

[Reborn]

@Reborn

What do you think about that ?

Isn't it sus to back down that much or you find it normal ?

Hard to tell


All i know is his meta and reactions have been inconsistent if we compare Lanji before vote and after vote

 

[Reborn]

@NeutralWatcher @Seraphoenix


What are your reads on other players?

 

[NeutralWatcher]

I am very close to flaming you for lack of comprehension. I will explain this for the last time. If you still can't understand after I've dumbed it down, then don't bother replying. We should stop this in any case as this argument might be construed as angle shooting.

My question was based on the last game where you tried to make some principle where if you were for a D1 lynch you were sus, I therefore asked whether you sussed Bogard to determine if you followed that same rule, as at that stage I didn't read the whole thread.

Do you understand that me asking whether you sussed Bogard was a question? Do you know what a question is? It is obviously not a statement is it? It is not "Neutral sussed Bogard" which your question to me : "Why are you thinking I sus Bogard?" implies. You made that leap, not me. It's a basic fallacy as the question does not in way imply a positive or a negative:

Sera: Did it rain today?yes or no?

Neutral :Why are you saying it rained today?
Me :

I know what a question is. You said "Has Neutral sus Bogard?" You would only ask that if you think I sus Bogard.
I replied with "Why are you thinking I sus Bogard?" I answer to that if you think I sus Bogard which is correct because later you said this.

Here I specifically asked if Neutral has sussed Bogard for D1 lynch as in the last game he sussed me because I was okay with a D1 lynch. I would expect that he also sussed Bogard here.

He then responds with the message saying that I said he sussed Bogard. Which is obviously untrue as I asked if he did. I didn't say he did.




So yes it makes sense that I accused you of lying because I never said you sussed Bogard. I was asking if you did. If you didn't then it differs from last game where you were town and were adamant that a D1 lynch is scummy. Now in this game you are asking people if D1 lynch is okay? Why ask if last game it helped you catch me when I was scum?

See the bold part? I would expect he would sus Bogard is not different than I think he would sus Bogard.

 

[NeutralWatcher]

@NeutralWatcher @Seraphoenix


What are your reads on other players?

Lanji and Seraphoenix seem sus to me but Seraphoenix is still a bigger sus on my list. What's your opinion about my case with Seraphoenix?

Are his onconsistencies from defending TAC make sense to you?

 

[Reborn]

Lanji and Seraphoenix seem sus to me but Seraphoenix is still a bigger sus on my list. What's your opinion about my case with Seraphoenix?

Are his onconsistencies from defending TAC make sense to you?

I confused about you vs sera. The arguments you guys have put aren't solid enough to push lynch for either of you. It's just nit picking.



My focus right now is re read thread especially tac posts and his interactions with others because from that we can Deduce who could be other scums

I will give my read based on that soon and I will try to feature everyone.

 

[Seraphoenix]

@NeutralWatcher @Seraphoenix


What are your reads on other players?

First gonna have to read through but I'll only have time to do so in about 2 hours.

 

[Finalbeta]

Is this another TMI based read or how did you back up him being town?

playa interacted with me and it was quite towny imho


Yo Tan Wa is town too

My sus is on Reborn for now.


Can someone explain me Yo Tan Wa vs Kiwi?
@Kiwipom

Why are you accusing Reborn of TMI when he has always been congruent with his read over Don?

Affirming to believe that someone is townie based off in-game behaviours doesn't imply being sure of one's alignment, expecially if the reasoning sticks within all the pieces of its puzzle

I don't like the way some players are mispicturing his line of thought, because it does not present incongruences

 

[Reborn]

Here is first 10 pages of TAC report card but before I go into that, I would like to clarify the premise of my reads which I will summarize later on. Now we Know TAC was mafia who can chat with other mafia.

1)a Mafia can generally raise sus on each other but they definitely maintain distance with each other. (Raise sus but maintain distance strategy)

2) Mafia don't interact with each other much.

3)they can call each other townie but usually they avoid doing so right at the beginning or they Avoid calling each other townie in case one of them is suspect during day phase.

Generally, They will be diplomatic and will wait for others to brand their partner as townie before jumping on it to say he is twonie. This is to avoid sus in case their partner gets Lynched.( Call townie but not at beginning and at right time and avoid interaction strategy)

So my reads would be based on this..TAC intereacted with whom and how? What others said about him and when?


So here is first 7 pages read

Players who inclined towards tac being Town right at the beginning and push sus on Bogard (inclines to believe they aren't mafia)

Spoiler: One

Mafia is a Scum faction though, are you referring to 2 independent, or another Scum faction?

@Bogard I don't really understand your case against TAC. You seem to be pushing really hard on very innocous comments, and TAC's playstyle so far is consistent with what I've seen of his Town games (granted I've never played against him as Scum, so I don't have much to go off here). Trying to engineer a mislyinch so early on/based on innocuous comments seems like a Scum action.

TAC is right about this point.

At first I found Bogard's arguments convincing, since TAC had read the OP and yet somehow missed the cycles description part which was odd in that very basic, however Bogard is accusing TAC of having asserted that he didn't read the OP at all and this never occurred.

Unless Bogard misremembered, this is a frame attempt or more likely a scum slip.

Also the reasons bogard pushing TAC seems forced to me
Like the whole argument about someone reading or not reading the op
I don't see how you conclude someone's alignment on that or the exchange


Care to contribute yourself :) ?

Players who branded both Bogard and tac as townie right at the beginning based on his game play and (not mafia)

Spoiler: Two

Bogard is town. I'm nearly about to lock it too. Although I'm not a fan of his reasoning, I like the progression. He's the nitpicking but I understand why he's doing it and he's putting up that early effort in the game while no one else has. He's trying to be productive and he's coming off extremely genuine with it.

Vote Lynch Kiwi

@Kiwipom psst, *whispers* are you town? @Reborn you answer that too

Oh yes, TAC is town. I'm a one second away from locking this entire Bogard vs TAC interaction as TvT. I am more interested in those outside of it.

Players who gave neutral read to tac and weren't sure of Bogard in the beginning ( could flip either way)

Spoiler: Three

Well, I'm not buying Bogard's accusations, I think I need to see more of TAC to decide.

From his defense and reactions, I don't see anything that particularly stands out. To me, it looked like Bogard was planning to banter with TAC from the start like with this post:

then the two of them got a bit aggressive. So I'm neutral on TAC atm

She later gave townie vs twonie read to both

Players who sus tac right at the beginning and lean townie twonie towards Bogard(not mafia)

Spoiler: Four

Tac answer this

Why you said Bogard is lying?

This post from Bogard was meant to get reactions from tac

It's a well picked up point from Bogard

^^bold part

NW made that post about day phase being 48 hours long on page one itself.

If you read the op then how come you didn't remember reading anything about 48 hours while being just on page one?

Short term memory loss tac?

He is engaging tac and it will help in getting reaction.

What makes you think a scum would try to engineer a mislynch so early in 48 hours long day phase?

By your logic, you are doing the same on Bogard isn't it?




How many Scums do you think this game has?


Just on fourth page and you eager to lock Bogard as town? Lol isn't that too Early?





Though I agree with your reasons that he is being productive

@TheAncientCenturion you said Bogard is lying about not reading op

But he clarified here that he was referring to "you not reading 48 hours info"

So why you still saying he is lying?

Players who simply commented in diplomatic way( mafia tactic)

Spoiler: Five

tacs comment
"Well, I read the OP post but I got really confused when the poster above mentioned a 48 hour day phase."

bogards
"At the beginning, i was only joking, but i find it suspicious that he decided to ask a less experienced mafia player about mafia setup instead of believing what he presumably read in opening posts, and then later on turning back the clock into claiming he didn't read it at all. "
not what he claimed at all. irc a bit scarred from last day 1 but its a bit weird.

reborn plays a bit aggressive to like bogard is doing rn but am interested to see why bogard claimed tac backtracked on reading D1 info.

talk about dejavu
lmao

read bogard justification
still cant see the slip or where tac said he didnt read a section only a misunderstanding was brought up. bogard is playing like I did on day one last game.

tac asked neutral a question
bogard insist he is a scum hiding that by acting like a noob
tac says he read the op but misunderstood something that neutral might have had head on.
bogard insist tac is playing noob , also insist tac claims to have read and backtracked on the reading the info for day 1.
problem is tac only said he misunderstood it.
tac might have played scum a bit too much in this game for players to trust him lmao.

do note there is currently a lynch on tac.

Players who were active but were wary of vote on tac due to last game EXPERIENCE - Jew, HA and Don da

 

[Rej]

Are you going to give any reasons? Or not.

You are theorist na, logically you should be good on this game and with words. Bt i dont see not much help from you here, why is that?

No, I am uninformed I don't know any shit, I feel like giving a good case once I have a good case

I just have some busy days and a slacky start of the game?

Why are you accusing Reborn of TMI when he has always been congruent with his read over Don?

Affirming to believe that someone is townie based off in-game behaviours doesn't imply being sure of one's alignment, expecially if the reasoning sticks within all the pieces of its puzzle

I don't like the way some players are mispicturing his line of thought, because it does not present incongruences

Why are you pulling out a hard defense when I called a simple sus? He also read me town earlier if I am not mistaking it, atleast he tried to explain something about me and there it pinged me, he was literally the first one trying to explain why I could be town and that's where the possible TMI pinged me. I sus him, doesn't mean he is my primary lynch candidate. In the end I would prefer voting an inactive or low poster because there is often scum between them. Since I know I am not scum I am all right sussing them or whoever I want.

That is the reason I won't give you any townread for now, and I doubt you will receive a townread from me in the near future.

Reborn is sus, you are too imho.

If someone confirmed you this game then please show me so.

 

[Reborn]

Pages 10-20(tac wasn't active much)

Kiwi - gave town vs town read and was firm (most likely she isn't mafia but she didn't scum hunt with Bogard and tac much which is weird.)

Lanji- gave town vs town read to both

Some important post- tac accusing kiwi and don

I'll give it a go, but I've spent the last 5 or so hours in this thread. I'm not gonna spend the rest of my evening rereading it.

Only things that, out of memory, seem off are @Don DaSlayer and @Kiwipom. Don makes comments but never really says anything. It's how he plays, I understand that and I don't like that. And I feel like Kiwi hasn't been assertive all game. Very mouse-y. Not using meta for her, but with the Bogard and I arguing as we did, I'd expect her to take a firmer side or have more solid reads on that.

Maybe she said something and I missed it, though.

My immediate stand out thoughts were how Don seems to always rotate around discussion but never gets into it. Does this every game and makes it irritating to read him. Kiwi, up until her most recent post, was too quiet for me. Something like this (the argument) should normally push her into having a clear and concise view, or have her be more vocal. But I guess that's meta reading, so it's not entirely worth while to dwell on. Just feels like she's quiet.

Players not shying away from giving reads on tac in their first few posts and have some kind of firm reads - jewe,ha, don and rest are below

I sleep n come back and we have players already at each other throats. Interesting, i love it this way.
My reads so far.

@TheAncientCenturion townie.
Lmoa at this point i am starting to think if his actions or personality outside this thread influence more so in this thread. Like if players love to target him. Lol
His mistake seems to me like an honest mistake. The OP post is lengthy and some parts cab be overlooked. And considering Tac personality, that is not surprising he blunders like this usually.

@Bogard are you scum? Boss
I think it's fair to assume you are aware of Tac personality, and so should know about his blunders bt yet seems to push it so strongly. I can agree normally acting dumb and blending in is scummy but you know us Tac better.
For now i would give you the benefit of the doubt that you wnated to get reactn out of him and also from others. It hit the game on, and so overall was a good step. Bt i am leaning bit on you being scum.

wow just wake up and already 13 pages haha you were at work tonight

About the TAC vs Bogard : it was fun but I don't think for now that either of them are scams.
Bogard likely wanted to move the game forward and we can say he managed that just well. Without their brawl there would be only 3/4 pages on the thread and a lot less to read.
But yeah For me nothing TaC said was suspect and the arguments against him are forced and he just tried to defend but it is quite hard to defend himself against nothing.

So for now they are not sus

I feel like tac and bogard are both scums making a scene

Okay I skimmed through most of it as there was a lot of repetition.

So far I like what I saw from Queen and Celestia. Queen in particular for throwing cold water on the idea that the Bogard vs TAC interaction is automatically town vs town. If they are smart or experienced players they would know that a D1 fight like that is likely to be construed as town v town as most are doing here. It's risky sure, but impossible? no way.

Not really a fan of what I've seen from Dragomir. His tldr of when people bus in particular is off. Anything is possible in mafia and experienced players know the common strategies and how to subvert expectations. If you are thinking 'scum wouldn't do that' then you've identified a viable strategy for mafia to use. Also didn't like how Dragomir skirted around Celestia's response to him.

I think TAC is town. I sense the same indignation from the last game. Being upset is natural @Reborn if you are town and continually sussed on flimsy reasons.

I don't know what to think about Bogard. I want to think he is town but he took it a bit too far imo. D1 is always coinflippy and I don't see any real benefit for TAC to be lying about the length of the day phase? Like what benefit does scum get from that? Is it likely that he just didn't read the OP carefully? yes. Hell I personally skim read them most of the time.

Players who had no firm reads on tac so far(this is weird)

Good morning guys :)

@Reborn

A lot of thing happen here and I need to check again most details. For the part with Kiwi I can't say much but as someone who play a lot with Bogard and TaC I can say that we had manytimes that both attacking each other from the start xD. Because that I don't know how to feel about it, we should take more opinions about it.

Overall I make later a post about the user and which note I get from the post here.

So my though about the users who write here more and beeing activity:

Dragomir: He seems a townie for now, he try to bait/get attention of the other players via voting random users here, also he make good points and open up more content for this game who could help us later(his discussing with Kiwi).

Finalbeta: Playing like a townie right now, didn´t get the feel about him beeing a scum but we should still have him behind our mind for later.

Bogard/TaC: Im not really sure, both doing something which I already see in the past. Attacking each other in the first day of the game, in one game both where even scums if I remember correctly yet attacking each other in first days xD. Don´t know but I would more looking at other discussing and players, because picking TaC or Bogard for their battle each other which happen almost in every game is really hard for a townie to decide the right thing, but if we need to lynch one of them I would go with your guys.

Lanji: As Celestia said, he only make commenting and chilling around right now(though the same for HA001 but he write later some more things which I firstly put him as townie for now. For Lanji I can´t say much.

Sera/NeutralWatcher: Have a weird discussing each other, would look over it too, probably could help us later in the game if we find the first scums.

Celestia: Getting from her Townie feeling for now.

Reborn: Same as Celestia, try to find the scum and trying to get attention from other users.

DonDaSlayer: Agree with him about the stupid beef between TaC and Bogard who almost happen in many games. Even though he had a point later for TaC.

Kiwipom: Kinda react weird to Drago first vote, at least in my opinion.

JewDboy,Cinera,Allred,Rayan,Queen,Rej,YoTanWa(Putting them all for now in neutral field).
I must reread again and look at many post again to make my final claim for the first days.

Tbf I was the first one to bring 48 hours since I thought each day phase lasts for 48 hours. TAC said he read OP but he did't read 48 hours part and I find it weird. 48 hours is clearly mentioned in both OP and write up.

Don't want to bring up previous game but he was very informative and in this game he asked for information from me.



I don't know which one of use is scum. I active in scum hunting when I know which one of us is the most sus. I also haven't read Tokyo Ghoul and I want to see reaction and interaction of each players before deciding who to vote.

 

[NeutralWatcher]

Pages 10-20(tac wasn't active much)

Kiwi - gave town vs town read and was firm (most likely she isn't mafia but she didn't scum hunt with Bogard and tac much which is weird.)

Lanji- gave town vs town read to both

Some important post- tac accusing kiwi and don



Players not shying away from giving reads on tac in their first few posts and have some kind of firm reads - jewe,ha, don and rest are below









Players who had no firm reads on tac so far(this is weird)

It is my meta. I'm not that active on D1. What I said about TAC is consistent.

I said on D2 today that I sus TAC because he read OP yet he missed 48 hours part.

Before the end of D1 I gave my sus on Seraphoenix, Celestia and TAC.

 

[NeutralWatcher]

Also the only game I have played with TAC and he turned out to be scum, his meta was different compared to this game. He said at that game at the beginning I am a strong townie and he was very informative IIRC so that was I was unsure whether TAC townie or not on D1 in this game but my read on his is consistent that he read OP but didn't read 48 hours part and I found that weird.

 

[Reborn]

Not much activity from tac since then except for two posts he made

Gonna give my reads briefly. And they will be brief in word count too.

No. We need info. The best way to gain info is on our terms, the town's. If we allowed Mafia to have the initiative, we don't get the full scope of interactions. We see only what they want us to see.




Short read on Yo Tan. I think he's real solid. Not many posts but I think the fact he's giving voluntary reads and putting himself out there is a good start.

Spoiler: Sera

I really like Sera this game. He's noticing inconsistencies in a player who hasn't done/said much and presented them to NW. And NW's response seemed very off to me. Whether deliberate or otherwise, NW strikes me as more panicked / worried that Sera has them in his sights. And it's a good case build up too.

Spoiler: Don

[









There isn't much to say. Don is a total blank in terms of actual contributions. Like Lanji but to a lesser extent, because he's. . Consistent, but it's not good either way. Most of Don's posts do not add anything. They do not encourage discussion. They simple sit, and allow Don to say he's here. Don, if this is your true town play style, I think you need to be more proactive.

It's not even like he pops in to take a side, from what I've seen. Don is just here. So he's not trying to steer conversation, even subtly. But he's persisting in posting / being a more active player (as far as I've seen) than most. Sooo.... Why? What's his angle, if he's not going to really talk that much? I don't think I quoted a majority of his replies, I think I stopped. But this gives us a good sample of what he's doing and what we can expect in future days. Bottom line is; Don isn't helping town out.

In a game like Mafia where the only way we can understand who is and isn't against us, is activity and conversation. So, just from you participating in the game but not doing much, soft-forms an opinion for me.

You give us nothing but talk constantly, so I need to automatically push you in a negative light. Not locking you in. But letting you know that you need to change it up for Day 2.

Spoiler: Celestia

I lean towards Nana being town. She seems active and ready to engage when she's here, questioning Lanji (once or twice IIRC) about his own silence. Part of it might be because I feel like she understands my issues with Bogard to a T (much like Drago) and is reinforcing them. But she isn't going so far as to condemn Bogard either, at least what I've seen. She keeps her mind open about both of us but says the reason we're arguing is dumb.

This is a leveled response and I appreciate that. She concisely gave her views on the topic while wrapping it up.






I can't remember if you made any stalwart stance on Bogard and I. Could you repeat that, if you did?

Also, on your reads as a whole in this section of my quotes;

Agreed with your reviews of Sera / Yo Tan Wa. Both give townie vibes from me. Yo Tan is very open whereas Sera is going after NW for discrepencies he's spotted and NW's response hasn't thrilled me.

Don also seems odd to me. But his play style is this, so it's tough to read. Either way, I don't have him as townie right now. Finalbeta still feels weird to me. He's not as aggressive as usual, so I don't want to instantly call him town either. Kiwi picked up the pace so I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt here.


Why would you lump Ha0 with Don? We have more reason to suspect Don. He's a more experienced Mafia player, albeit by a few more games. He's been around talking consistently since Day 1 and hasn't tried to contribute anything. I give Ha0 more benefit of the doubt since this is his second time playing a game of this genre, total. Besides, you think Ha0 is neutral and Don is bad. So you should want Don gone more.

Spoiler: Lanji

So the closest Lanji gets to an opinion on this matter is parroting me but doing so in a lackadaisical manner. "Oh well, Bogard said this about TAC and it wasn't true. HOW WEIRD." as if waiting to see if this line of thinking would gain more momentum. It doesn't help that the other comments up until this point are not... Important in the least?

Note: I quoted most but not all of Lanji's comments. So maybe I missed something that was slightly more pertinent to the game, but I don't believe I did. Early on, Lanji seems to talk to talk and "be there" and has no real major swing on Bogard and I's arguments. At best, he lazily takes my side to float the idea of Bogard being scum, but doesn't pursue it much.








So slightly more "game looking" posts, but again. He does not take a side. He spits the facts, but not his views on what's happening around him. There's no greater inference or decision to take part of a conversation. He's just there. In Mafia, especially a game like this, I feel like there shouldn't be a reason to pass up on your opinions. Unless you're trying to pull some 190 IQ move and trap scum in some argument, which I doubt from Lanji (no offense) then why is he more on the timid side?

Again.. Tagging people but not contributing.




Second time he mentions that Bogard is being like him last game. They're both wrong about me, but I don't think it's similar in the least. Lanji had more of a reason to suspect me.

So we get the first bit of concrete info, he now thinks we're both townie... I think this is after Dragomir mentions it, so it's a safe opinion. So far almost nobody has accused Drago of not being town, so I take this less as Lanji coming around and more trying to blend in with popular opinion.



I find NW much more sus than Sera, based on their interaction. Seems like Sera was just asking for a reason why NW's views changed games and NW deliberately took the conversation in another direction. I don't get what you mean by low activity when Sera's been pretty good with reads / commentary in regards to the NW discussion, sussing out an inconsistency and pursing it.

There are other players quieter that you could go after, if low activity is what you were really worried about.




It just feels very off how much you're talking and how you don't contribute much. Any reads you give are so very short lived and barely without any reason to give them substance. They have no legs to walk, just "hmmm. I sus Sera. Or, maybe Nana."

For your activity in this game (as in the rate of being around / posts) you seem to be doing an awful lot of nothing. Which does not mesh well with your prior game, in my experience, where Day 1 you were very active and inquired on most players. IDK if you changed because of your botched lynch or if that's just going to be your cover for a mixed up meta. I just don't like your mouth running and nothing coming out of it. Nor do I like your reads on Nana/Sera, who I read as town as of now.

So; For Mafia I have a bit of a more gradient style view on scum and how I pursue them. Let me just give you the quick legend.

100% Townie — I have proof they are a townie or the logic behind them being anything else is beyond the pale
Townie — Someone who's game play strongly reflects a townie for me. But I am not willing to overlook odd things about them.
Leaning Town — Neutral-ish positive. Players who I have no reason to sus as bad based on their limited actions, and I presume to be town for the time being. But it's a weak thought.
Leaning Scum — Neutral-ish negative. Someone who I think is suspicious for one reason or another. I have no immediate good reason to vote them or to build a case, but I keep my eye on them
Suspicious Player — Someone who I am fairly certain is scum of some variety. I would be happy to vote them off if I had no better options. Not someone I'd immediately go to TO vote off though.
Scum — Basically someone whose actions are so blatant there is no other reason to them.

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My Reads:
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Dragomir
Cinera
Seraphoenix
Celestia
Kiwi
Yo Tan Wan
Jew D. Boy
Ha0
Reborn
Finalbeta
Queen
Don
Rej
Playa
All Red
Rayan
Neutral Watcher
Lanji
Bogard

I'm on the fance for Queen/Final Beta. I guess you could swap them in either direction. Most of the Leaning Scum are inactives who I have no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt for. Better to start off skeptical. Neutral Watcher seems very off based on his exchange with Seraphoenix, Lanji's different play style and lack of any real views puts him there for me too. We all know why I want Bogard gone.

I hope this tiered system makes sense. Suspicious = / = auto mean scum for me.

@Bogard @Yo Tan Wa @Finalbeta @Cinera what you guys think about the above three posts of mine?